Announcement

Collapse

Philosophy 201 Guidelines

Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Can a Timeless God Really Understand us?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    No you said: Knowing the attributes of God through God's prophets is not the same as knowing the essential nature of God.

    How is it that God's attributes don't, in some real sense, reflect his essential nature?
    They reflect God's essential nature, but they do not represent God's essential nature. I believe Aquinas actually addressed this limited knowledge of God's essence and truth from the human perspective.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Well ah . . . seer, it gets on touchy turf what you consider true things about God. Our points of agreement have long been established.
    No you said: Knowing the attributes of God through God's prophets is not the same as knowing the essential nature of God.

    How is it that God's attributes don't, in some real sense, reflect his essential nature?

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    God talking to man cannot be considered a fact, because there is no objective evidence, and also many different people claim that talks to them saying different things.
    That is just stupid. I'm speaking to you right now - is that a fact? If I was speaking to you over coffee, that to would be a fact even if we could not prove it be objective evidence later.

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    So do you agree that we can know some true things about God - correct?
    Well ah . . . seer, it gets on touchy turf what you consider true things about God. Our points of agreement have long been established.

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Unless God has spoken to man. Which would be a historical fact. Not merely a belief.
    God talking to man cannot be considered a fact, because there is no objective evidence, and also many different people claim that talks to them saying different things.

    Leave a comment:


  • JimL
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Unless God has spoken to man. Which would be a historical fact. Not merely a belief.
    That would also be a belief as far as anyone who has not been spoken to by god, which means that no, they can not know the essence of a thing that they don't even know exists.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    Of course you can't know, you can't even know that god exists, its a belief, so how could you know anyhing about a belief?
    Unless God has spoken to man. Which would be a historical fact. Not merely a belief.

    Leave a comment:


  • JimL
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    So do you agree that we can know some true things about God - correct?
    Of course you can't know, you can't even know that god exists, its a belief, so how could you know anyhing about a belief?

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    . . . because we believe what our scripture teaches us concerning these attributes of God.
    So do you agree that we can know some true things about God - correct?

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Then you have to explain why both your religion and mine describes God. That He is all-knowing, all merciful, just, truthful and such. These are essential qualities of His nature.
    . . . because we believe what our scripture teaches us concerning these attributes of God.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Actually my view agrees with Thomas Aquinas on this issue:



    Aquinas then argues for the existence of God beyond this apophatic view of God in his 'five ways'

    Actually I owe Robrecht for a clarification on the point.

    Then you have to explain why both your religion and mine describes God. That He is all-knowing, all merciful, just, truthful and such. These are essential qualities of His nature.

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Well Shuny said we could not know His essential nature. But can can know at least some things about that essential nature.
    Actually my view agrees with Thomas Aquinas on this issue:



    Aquinas then argues for the existence of God beyond this apophatic view of God in his 'five ways'

    Actually I owe Robrecht for a clarification on the point.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Yes, and we can know that much.
    Well Shuny said we could not know His essential nature. But can can know at least some things about that essential nature.

    No. God moves in mysterious ways, which we seldom comprehend.
    Yes, I agree, generally. But we even here we can know some things about the ways of God, like He rewards faith and punishes rebellion.

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Then school me, because we certainty can know some things about God's essential nature. Are not omniscience, love, justice, mercy part of His essential nature?
    Yes, and we can know that much.
    Or is Shuny just saying that we can't know the stuff God is made of?
    No. God moves in mysterious ways, which we seldom comprehend.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Yes, but that's not what Shunya was saying when you disagreed with him.
    Then school me, because we certainty can know some things about God's essential nature. Are not omniscience, love, justice, mercy part of His essential nature? Or is Shuny just saying that we can't know the stuff God is made of?

    Leave a comment:

widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
Working...
X