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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Can a Timeless God Really Understand us?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    You know I always wondered about that, would Christ, in some sense, experience the pain of crucifixion for eternity. If that is the case it puts His sacrifice in a completely different light.
    Christ has two natures, His Divine nature and His Human nature. These two are different from each other, one is timeless and eternal, the other came into existence at a particular point in time and was subject to the passing of time. Christ's Divine nature is completely perfect and changeless, and therefore can't undergo experiences as these imply change. Christ's Human nature on the other hand could go through such suffering, which is what He did on the cross. That ceased with His death.

    From His Eternal Divine perspective, its true that in some sense the Crucifixion in a sense copresent with Him, however to His Human Nature its in the past.

    Makes your head spin.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
      Christ has two natures, His Divine nature and His Human nature. These two are different from each other, one is timeless and eternal, the other came into existence at a particular point in time and was subject to the passing of time. Christ's Divine nature is completely perfect and changeless, and therefore can't undergo experiences as these imply change. Christ's Human nature on the other hand could go through such suffering, which is what He did on the cross. That ceased with His death.

      From His Eternal Divine perspective, its true that in some sense the Crucifixion in a sense copresent with Him, however to His Human Nature its in the past.

      Makes your head spin.
      But can an omniscient being, even in a temporal body, experience something, then cease to experience it? I think yes, it would always be "copresent" with Him. I just wonder what that looks like.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        But can an omniscient being, even in a temporal body, experience something, then cease to experience it? I think yes, it would always be "copresent" with Him. I just wonder what that looks like.
        Omniscience does not require the experience to know experience. In the trinity explanation you have the omniscient and omnipresent God and His agent who is both eternal and temporal, the Son of God who is also now the Son of man (John 3:13, ". . . who is in heaven." Being then both on earth and in heaven.)
        Last edited by 37818; 07-13-2015, 08:44 PM.
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

        Comment


        • #19
          IF God exists, the question is meaningless. Humans could not comprehend God as Timeless or whatever. IF God exists, God is God, and God's Creation is God's Creation. The Created cannot comprehend the Creator.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            The Created cannot comprehend the Creator.
            That is just stupid. Why would God send prophets to teach us about Himself?
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              That is just stupid. Why would God send prophets to teach us about Himself?
              The finite cannot comprehend the infinite. We can know something about God, but we can in no way fully comprehend Him. We can't even endure full exposure to Him (Ex. 33:20).
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                The finite cannot comprehend the infinite. We can know something about God, but we can in no way fully comprehend Him. We can't even endure full exposure to Him (Ex. 33:20).
                I agree that we can not know God totally, but we can know true things about Him.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  That is just stupid. Why would God send prophets to teach us about Himself?
                  Knowing the attributes of God through God's prophets is not the same as knowing the essential nature of God.

                  One Bad Pig is correct.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    I agree that we can not know God totally, but we can know true things about Him.
                    The problem is that from the fallible human perspective different people believe they know true things about God which are conflicting and do not agree.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      Knowing the attributes of God through God's prophets is not the same as knowing the essential nature of God.

                      One Bad Pig is correct.
                      But knowing His attributes is knowing true things about God. God is all-knowing, that is part of His essential nature and we can understand that attribute.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        But knowing His attributes is knowing true things about God. God is all-knowing, that is part of His essential nature and we can understand that attribute.
                        True, but we fallible humans are not All-Knowing.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          True, but we fallible humans are not All-Knowing.
                          No poop Sherlock - but we can know some things about God's His essential nature, and know that they are true.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            No poop Sherlock - but we can know some things about God's His essential nature, and know that they are true.
                            disagree. Isaiah 55:8 - "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              No poop Sherlock - but we can know some things about God's His essential nature, and know that they are true.
                              Yes, but that's not what Shunya was saying when you disagreed with him.
















































                              [I've agreed with Shunya AND Roy about something today. ]
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                disagree. Isaiah 55:8 - "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.

                                And? True, we don't always know what God is thinking or doing - but you said we can not know His essential nature. But we can know somethings about His essential nature, like His omniscience.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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