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Cogito ergo sum

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B Theory Of Time...

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  • B Theory Of Time...

    If the B Theory of time is correct, why would we have access (by memory) to past events but not to future events? And if our experience of the passing of time is an illusion how or why does that illusion arise in the first place?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    If the B Theory of time is correct, why would we have access (by memory) to past events but not to future events? And if our experience of the passing of time is an illusion how or why does that illusion arise in the first place?
    Well, I'm not a B-theorist, but one explanation as to why we would only have memories of past events but not future events under B-theory is that in every specific moment of time in which you exist, the memories that are stored in your brain are exclusively of the past in relation to that very moment of time, and every "you" that exists in each of those moments only has access to the memories that exist in your brain at that very moment.


    With regards to the illusion of the passing of time, I have no idea how it arises, I don't think there are any convincing explanations as to how it arises and I don't find it likely any such explanations will ever be forthcoming, which is why I think at least a "pure" B-theory is unlikely to be true.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
      Well, I'm not a B-theorist, but one explanation as to why we would only have memories of past events but not future events under B-theory is that in every specific moment of time in which you exist, the memories that are stored in your brain are exclusively of the past in relation to that very moment of time, and every "you" that exists in each of those moments only has access to the memories that exist in your brain at that very moment.
      But don't we presently exist in every moment of time? Past present and future? And how can we even speak of moments of time in B theory?

      With regards to the illusion of the passing of time, I have no idea how it arises, I don't think there are any convincing explanations as to how it arises and I don't find it likely any such explanations will ever be forthcoming, which is why I think at least a "pure" B-theory is unlikely to be true.
      OK...
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        But don't we presently exist in every moment of time? Past present and future? And how can we even speak of moments of time in B theory?

        Under B-theory we wouldn't exist in every moment of time, but rather, every moment of time in which you exist would be equally real. So the you that exist in the past, and the you that exist in the future are all equally as real as the you that exists in the present.

        I think one way to look at moments of time under B-theory would be to look at time kind of like a roll of film, where each frame is a separate moment of time. In the same way, under at least some versions (I'm not sure if this is a feature of all theories of time that qualifies as being a B-theory, or only a subset of them) of B-theory, a moment in time would be like a snapshot, or freeze frame of the universe at a specific time.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
          Under B-theory we wouldn't exist in every moment of time, but rather, every moment of time in which you exist would be equally real. So the you that exist in the past, and the you that exist in the future are all equally as real as the you that exists in the present.

          I think one way to look at moments of time under B-theory would be to look at time kind of like a roll of film, where each frame is a separate moment of time. In the same way, under at least some versions (I'm not sure if this is a feature of all theories of time that qualifies as being a B-theory, or only a subset of them) of B-theory, a moment in time would be like a snapshot, or freeze frame of the universe at a specific time.
          I still don't get it, why wouldn't I have access to future memories? Why don't I equally have memories of 2026? Why do past and present tenses register but not future?
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            I still don't get it, why wouldn't I have access to future memories? Why don't I equally have memories of 2026? Why do past and present tenses register but not future?
            Because at any moment of time where you exist you only have access to the memories that are stored in your brain in that moment, and the only memories stored in your brain are from moments that are in the past, relative to that specific moment of time. So no matter which moment of time you look at, the only memories you would have in that moment would be from the past. So the you in 2020 wouldn't have any memories from 2026, because there wouldn't be any memories from 2026 stored in your brain in 2020.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
              Because at any moment of time where you exist you only have access to the memories that are stored in your brain in that moment, and the only memories stored in your brain are from moments that are in the past, relative to that specific moment of time. So no matter which moment of time you look at, the only memories you would have in that moment would be from the past. So the you in 2020 wouldn't have any memories from 2026, because there wouldn't be any memories from 2026 stored in your brain in 2020.
              But why, on the B Theory, isn't my specific moment of time in 2026? Why now? What governs this? I mean the 2026 me exists correct?
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                But why, on the B Theory, isn't my specific moment of time in 2026? Why now? What governs this? I mean the 2026 me exists correct?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                  If time is really tenseless then there really is no past preset or future, the 2026 me exists, as well as the 2020 me, and the 1968 me. But I don't have access to the 2026 me. It seems that that lack of knowledge only makes sense with the A theory of time.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    If time is really tenseless then there really is no past preset or future, the 2026 me exists, as well as the 2020 me, and the 1968 me. But I don't have access to the 2026 me. It seems that that lack of knowledge only makes sense with the A theory of time.
                    That is why I don't buy it myself seer. For one thing, if all of time is equally real, it negates free will completely. The future, your future, according to the B-theory, would be real before you even existed. It's as if the real you were just a spirit experiencing time, experiencing your life, as if it were set down before your experience of it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      If the B Theory of time is correct, why would we have access (by memory) to past events but not to future events? And if our experience of the passing of time is an illusion how or why does that illusion arise in the first place?
                      well, every moment or "slice" of your timeline all think they are in "Now" and they are as far as they are concerned. Right now you think "this is now!" and in two seconds you will think the same thing. So "both of you", the one right now reading this, and the one from two seconds ago, both thought that they were in "now" but look, another few seconds have passed and the you of right now thinks it is now.

                      The reason you have access to the past but not the future is because of the way our memories work, they are additive and the way time works. It is one way.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        I still don't get it, why wouldn't I have access to future memories? Why don't I equally have memories of 2026? Why do past and present tenses register but not future?
                        Entropy. Time only works in one direction. Each frame of you is created from an addition of all previous frames, so your brain contains all of the past memories, but that frame is still "behind" the future frames of you, so it can't have the memories of the future. Time is a dimension which has directions, back and forward. Like a ruler, each line is higher than the ones to the left, but lower than the ones to the right. 1...2...3...4...5... - It all exists at the same time, but 2 is always lower than 3 but higher than 1, etc.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          But why, on the B Theory, isn't my specific moment of time in 2026? Why now? What governs this? I mean the 2026 me exists correct?
                          Your 2026 version of you is thinking the very same thing.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            That is why I don't buy it myself seer. For one thing, if all of time is equally real, it negates free will completely. The future, your future, according to the B-theory, would be real before you even existed. It's as if the real you were just a spirit experiencing time, experiencing your life, as if it were set down before your experience of it.
                            JimL - you already ruined Boxing Pythagoras's thread, please don't ruin this one. Go away.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              well, every moment or "slice" of your timeline all think they are in "Now" and they are as far as they are concerned. Right now you think "this is now!" and in two seconds you will think the same thing. So "both of you", the one right now reading this, and the one from two seconds ago, both thought that they were in "now" but look, another few seconds have passed and the you of right now thinks it is now.

                              The reason you have access to the past but not the future is because of the way our memories work, they are additive and the way time works. It is one way.
                              You're not telling us anything we don't already know and have stated, Sparko. The point is that the whole timeline exist, all the nows exist, all the "nows" are just as real, it's not as though 2 seconds actually elapse, the future 2 seconds are just as real as the past 2 seconds.

                              Seers point, his question, is why is he only experiencing the present if his existence in the past and the future are just as real as his existence in the present?

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