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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    But seer, a supreme creator need have nothing to do with the rules of nature as we know them in order to puff a universe into existence out of nothing. The laws and constants that you go on about would need already exist and be known by an intelligent creator in order that an intelligent creator create according to those laws and constants. Are you suggesting that god followed the existing natural laws, the specs if you will, when creating the universe?
    Well God created the laws that the universe would operate by.



    That doesn't help your argument. Your argument is that the creation of the universe requires intelligence. But then the question becomes, intelligence of what? If there was nothing, then there was nothing to be known, there were no laws or constants. So, your idea of intelligent creation doesn't make sense in the first place.
    What? Why couldn't God create a universe that operated according to the laws He also created, and knew were necessary?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post
      Neat how God directed the evolutionary process to endow the human family with a sense of right or wrong.
      True, but also with a questionable judgment for self justification.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post
        Neat how God directed the evolutionary process to endow the human family with a sense of right or wrong.
        What is this "God" of which you speak?
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          True, but also with a questionable judgment for self justification.
          Like I said Shuny, welcome to the intelligent design camp.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seer View Post
            Well God created the laws that the universe would operate by.
            But the laws and constants, as you understand, had to be exactly as they are in order that life evolve, so it isn't as though god had a choice in what laws to create. That means that though you could argue that a god may have known the laws, he couldn't have create them.



            What? Why couldn't God create a universe that operated according to the laws He also created, and knew were necessary?
            Because, as above, and as you know, the laws had to be as they are which of course means they weren't created.

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            • [QUOTE=JimL;667992]But the laws and constants, as you understand, had to be exactly as they are in order that life evolve, so it isn't as though god had a choice in what laws to create. That means that though you could argue that a god may have known the laws, he couldn't have create them.]/quote]

              Jim, that doesn't make sense. He created the physical laws that He knew would sustain and foster order and life. In other words it was God's idea.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                Jim, that doesn't make sense. He created the physical laws that He knew would sustain and foster order and life. In other words it was God's idea.
                Yeah, and it had to be for the life as we know it - pretty smart God!
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • [QUOTE=seer;668005]
                  Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  But the laws and constants, as you understand, had to be exactly as they are in order that life evolve, so it isn't as though god had a choice in what laws to create. That means that though you could argue that a god may have known the laws, he couldn't have create them.]/quote]

                  Jim, that doesn't make sense. He created the physical laws that He knew would sustain and foster order and life. In other words it was God's idea.
                  And how did god know to create those exact physical laws, seer, in order that they foster and sustain order and life?
                  Last edited by JimL; 09-07-2019, 07:56 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    And how did god know to create those exact physical laws, seer, in order that they foster and sustain order and life?
                    I think you're trying to prove false the statement "there's no such thing as a stupid question".
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I think you're trying to prove false the statement "there's no such thing as a stupid question".
                      Then answer it, stupid.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Then answer it, stupid.
                        You're doing that thing, again, Peewee. And I've been SO nice to you lately.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          You're doing that thing, again, Peewee. And I've been SO nice to you lately.
                          You said it was a stupid question, CP. Show me in what sense it's stupid. Answer it!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            You said it was a stupid question, CP.
                            No, actually I didn't say that.

                            Show me in what sense it's stupid. Answer it!
                            Have you been drinking, Jimmy? I don't take orders from internet trolls.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              No, actually I didn't say that.
                              You implied it was stupid, stupid.

                              Have you been drinking, Jimmy? I don't take orders from internet trolls.
                              The troll is you, CP. You have no interesting thoughts on the subject but you can't help but bud in with your ad hominum attacks.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                You implied it was stupid, stupid.
                                That's closer to the truth, but you're doing that jackass name calling thing again. (Peewee Herman calling Hulk Hogan a sissy. )

                                The troll is you, CP. You have no interesting thoughts on the subject but you can't help but bud in with your ad hominum attacks.
                                Ask nicely and I'll be happy to answer.

                                (seriously, it sounds like you've been drinking)
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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