So it appears the issue that we keep coming back to is the one of maximal greatness. Could we not simply agree that maximal greatness, if it is a coherent concept, would entail necessity regardless of whether we understand all the ins-and-outs of it, including whether the nature of maximal greatness has a maximum or is infinite in quality?
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Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostI'm no atheist. That doesn't mean that I uncritically accept any and every logical argument for "God".If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Theistic-Student View PostSo it appears the issue that we keep coming back to is the one of maximal greatness. Could we not simply agree that maximal greatness, if it is a coherent concept, would entail necessity regardless of whether we understand all the ins-and-outs of it, including whether the nature of maximal greatness has a maximum or is infinite in quality?
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostI can set aside the issue of its coherence, yes, but otherwise I have not yet reached a definite conclusion on whether it would entail necessity in any of the many ontological arguments. For me, the next issue is the concept of 'greatness' or 'excellence' or whatever. It needs analysis rather than being assumed. Now, of course, I would expect that many of the proponents of ontological argument would do this analysis, but then each one needs to be examined in the context of the respective arguments.
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Originally posted by Theistic-Student View PostCan you elaborate on this a little? I'm a tad curious.
On second thought, I might be misremembering his approach. It's been many years since I took any philosophy classes.Last edited by robrecht; 05-08-2014, 04:04 PM.βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by Truthseeker View PostSome atheists are folks who reject any argument for the existence of God or refuse to accept any definition of "God." I think just shake the dust off our shoes and go on to other places.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Truthseeker View PostSome atheists are folks who reject any argument for the existence of God or refuse to accept any definition of "God." I think just shake the dust off our shoes and go on to other places.βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by Paprika View PostI'm no atheist. That doesn't mean that I uncritically accept any and every logical argument for "God".The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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Was there a definition of "greatness"? Anyway, "Nothing is greater than God" is meaningless until "God" is defined by a definition that does not imply "nothing is greater than God."The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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Originally posted by Truthseeker View PostWas there a definition of "greatness"? Anyway, "Nothing is greater than God" is meaningless until "God" is defined by a definition that does not imply "nothing is greater than God."
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