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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
    Your approach is too simplisitic, and this leads to a faulty conclusion. It's NOT the case that there would be zero ethical commonality. There are countless ways for people to have commonality, and such commonality can exist in some aspects while being absent in others.
    Really, can you repeat these. Where do we find ethical commonality across cultures.
    Last edited by seer; 04-28-2014, 09:47 AM.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      I don't agree at all. Again, if you are correct there would be next to zero ethical commonality across cultures, or any possible moral understanding between peoples. But that is not the case, nor has it ever been. And what culture sees murder or theft within their own tribe as good things? Or bravery as bad and cowardice as good?
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      Really, can you repeat these. Where do we find ethical commonality across cultures.


      Why should I provide examples of ethical commonality when you already agree they exist? The difference I propose is in regards to what falls under a given label. Multiple cultures may abhor murder, but even in the US that term has a lot of disagreement about what acts do or don't qualify. Some consider capital punishment to qualify as murder while others don't, even while both parties consider murder a moral ill.
      I'm not here anymore.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Carrikature View Post


        Why should I provide examples of ethical commonality when you already agree they exist? The difference I propose is in regards to what falls under a given label. Multiple cultures may abhor murder, but even in the US that term has a lot of disagreement about what acts do or don't qualify. Some consider capital punishment to qualify as murder while others don't, even while both parties consider murder a moral ill.
        Carrikature, if there is such a disagreement about what actually constitutes murder then how are we not back in the same boat? No commonality. There must be some real agreement as what would qualify as murder (not total agreement but significant). Look at it this way - I don't think that there is a culture on earth (now or in the past), if I visited and decided to shoot one of their citizens, just for the fun of it, where I wouldn't be arrested for murder.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          Carrikature, if there is such a disagreement about what actually constitutes murder then how are we not back in the same boat? No commonality. There must be some real agreement as what would qualify as murder (not total agreement but significant). Look at it this way - I don't think that there is a culture on earth (now or in the past), if I visited and decided to shoot one of their citizens, just for the fun of it, where I wouldn't be arrested for murder.
          Murder relates to the killing of a group member under specific circumstances. Who is included in the group, and what those circumstances are, can vary greatly without affecting that basic definition, and that basic definition is the commonality. In fact, I dare say that most moral questions boil down to doing something to a group member under specific circumstances. Fraud, theft, murder, slavery, justice, and kindess all fall into this paradigm. It's the fundamental question of personhood: who/what possesses it, and what privileges (if any) come with it. Even granting that all people are equal, there are still disagreements on whether or not certain groups count as people. Abortion is a perfect example of that.
          I'm not here anymore.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
            Murder relates to the killing of a group member under specific circumstances. Who is included in the group, and what those circumstances are, can vary greatly without affecting that basic definition, and that basic definition is the commonality. In fact, I dare say that most moral questions boil down to doing something to a group member under specific circumstances. Fraud, theft, murder, slavery, justice, and kindess all fall into this paradigm. It's the fundamental question of personhood: who/what possesses it, and what privileges (if any) come with it. Even granting that all people are equal, there are still disagreements on whether or not certain groups count as people. Abortion is a perfect example of that.
            So you agree that if I, as a stranger, killed a citizen for the fun of it, in just about any culture, that they would see that as morally wrong.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              So you agree that if I, as a stranger, killed a citizen for the fun of it, in just about any culture, that they would see that as morally wrong.
              Of course. Just don't ignore the broader context.
              I'm not here anymore.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                Of course. Just don't ignore the broader context.

                I'm not, I'm just trying to establish that there are some moral norms that cross cultural lines and not just in a vague sense but in specific.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  I'm not, I'm just trying to establish that there are some moral norms that cross cultural lines and not just in a vague sense but in specific.
                  In the south 80 or more years ago if a black man killed a white in self defense it was murder. If a white man killed a black man for any reason it was justified.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    It seems that the recent posts have shown that the problem with 'defining rights' usually has resulted from the unwillingness to define 'other' peoples as being part of one's own group.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                      It seems that the recent posts have shown that the problem with 'defining rights' usually has resulted from the unwillingness to define 'other' peoples as being part of one's own group.

                      That is definitely part of it.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Really, can you repeat these. Where do we find ethical commonality across cultures.
                        There are many common ethical principles between the Confucian East and West. In fact most cultures going back to the Neolithic have common moral and ethical principles.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment

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