Originally posted by Spartacus
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostIt seems that your question was no so much about fundamental rights, which are innumerable. Rights of this type are mostly focused on what an individual person should be recognized as having. Instead your focus seems to be on either a societal level (what I should expect from my community pool or government) or a social level (what I should expect from my neighbor)
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo Spartacus, my point still holds. When people form lines to access anything there is an expectation. If you are in situation where lines are not forming, then there is no expectation. I have been at concerts where we would just pee in the woods. But once lines form there is an understanding. And I will maintain that no matter which culture, if you cut that line the others will see that as unfair.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWhatever, rights are still subjective, or as you put it, in the eyes of the founders. If rights are not subjective then explain how they are derived objectively?Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostRights are derived by measuring the demands of dignity up against the means available to a particular society at a particular point in time.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostAnd are the demands of dignity dependent upon objective criteria or are they derived subjectively? Do these demands of dignity from which rights are derived apply only to human beings?
So there are some uniquely human rights, but human desires don't entirely override the dignity of the environment.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostYou're still assuming a culture in which lines are common enough for the culture to have developed norms around them. If you want to demonstrate the universality of the idea of fairness, you're going to have to start somewhere else.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostCarrikature, you can not dismiss my example so easily. I think you recognize, that yes, just about everyone in those lines would see the line jumping as unfair i.e. wrong. There is no reason to try and confuse the issue. And we would see it as unfair for similar reasons. If I were to follow your reasoning, you would think that there would be little agreement as to the unfairness of the act - but we both know that would not be the case.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by seer View PostLet me ask you - what if they were waiting for food to feed their family? Or medical care? But there can be situations where fairness is not expected. But having been to many outdoor concerts in my time, even there, jumping the line for a porta-pottie would have been frowned on.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by seer View PostOk, how about if we start with God. That we all are His imagine bearers, that we all have His law written on our hearts (see Rom.2:14,15). And if that is the case, and I think it is, we should see some ethical commonality across cultures - notwithstanding the distortion that sin introduces.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostThere is no attempt to confuse the issue. The issue IS complex. What's ironic is that you don't even appear to believe your own claim. Rather, you accept that not every person follows the same reasoning, hence the 99% caveat you made and the "just about everyone" caveat in the post I've quoted. You already recognize the flaw and therefore the insufficiency of the example. As if that weren't enough, Spartacus modified the example slightly and amply demonstrated how quickly your declaration fails to obtain. So yes, I can dismiss the example pretty easily, primarily because it is overly simplistic and fails to represent the whole (as if any one example could, which is entirely the point).Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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The way I see it, there is no such thing as an impossible heresy; no matter how absurd the idea (be it intellectual or moral), it is possible that someone might embrace it wholeheartedly. You may, if you wish, take the ideas of Ayn Rand as proof of this.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostA You and I can agree on these ideas, but that doesn't mean that you can take it for granted that everyone else does.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI don't agree at all. Again, if you are correct there would be next to zero ethical commonality across cultures, or any possible moral understanding between peoples. But that is not the case, nor has it ever been. And what culture sees murder or theft within their own tribe as good things? Or bravery as bad and cowardice as good?I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostThe way I see it, there is no such thing as an impossible heresy; no matter how absurd the idea (be it intellectual or moral), it is possible that someone might embrace it wholeheartedly. You may, if you wish, take the ideas of Ayn Rand as proof of this.I'm not here anymore.
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