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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Atheism And Moral Progress

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  • thormas
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Is it a sin to God and why?
    Previously answered.........

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by thormas View Post

    Incest is a great evil where I come from: raised in the north and living now in the south :+}
    Is it a sin to God and why?

    Leave a comment:


  • Tassman
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    But why is the present moral view more correct than past views?
    We are not likely to hold moral views we consider INCORRECT are we. Although we can recognize in a later era that our past views were immoral – e.g. slave ownership.

    And these current community values are not held world wide, not in Communist or Muslim countries. What makes the West right and them wrong?
    But these current values are held by us. They have not always been held by us – e.g. we used to think the destruction of native cultures and ownership of slaves was perfectly acceptable. Now we don’t. Morals and ethics evolve and vary over time from culture to culture.

    Of course it is luck, there is no aim or goal to any of it. Nature did not decide to set up a system of natural selection, that system too came about by luck.
    "Luck” has nothing to do with it. Natural Selection occurred on our particular planet because circumstances were favorable for it whereas, overall, the universe Is hostile to life.


    Last edited by Tassman; 10-03-2020, 11:19 PM.

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  • Electric Skeptic
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Of course it is luck, there is no aim or goal to any of it. Nature did not decide to set up a system of natural selection, that system too came about by luck.
    Still wrong. Or should it be 'again wrong'?

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  • Stoic
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    If there are not universal moral truths then no moral view is more correct or valid than its opposite.
    Would you say that if there are no universal aesthetic truths, then no opinion about art or music is more correct or valid than its opposite?

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  • thormas
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    I guess neither is incest...
    Incest is a great evil where I come from: raised in the north and living now in the south :+}

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  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by thormas View Post

    Never said there weren't...........simply that homosexuality as a great evil is not one :+}
    I guess neither is incest...

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  • thormas
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    If there are not universal moral truths then no moral view is more correct or valid than its opposite.
    Never said there weren't...........simply that homosexuality as a great evil is not one :+}

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by thormas View Post

    Perhaps the present moral value is 'more correct' simply because many see more clearly. We have moved (or are moving) from tribalism, superstition and racism (to name just a few beliefs that diminish life) to greater freedom - if we remain attentive, to actually be 'Christ' in and to our world.
    If there are not universal moral truths then no moral view is more correct or valid than its opposite.

    Leave a comment:


  • thormas
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    But why is the present moral view more correct than past views? And these current community values are not held world wide, not in Communist or Muslim countries. What makes the West right and them wrong?
    Perhaps the present moral value is 'more correct' simply because many see more clearly. We have moved (or are moving) from tribalism, superstition and racism (to name just a few beliefs that diminish life) to greater freedom - if we remain attentive, to actually be 'Christ' in and to our world.

    Leave a comment:


  • thormas
    replied
    Originally posted by Tassman View Post

    Oh yes. There are almost always some individuals who resist the discriminatory (sometimes brutal) actions of the majority. And these are the individuals who collectively, over time bring about reform - e.g. the abolitionists and the suffragettes etc. ,

    Nicely stated.

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  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Tassman View Post

    Throughout human history community moral values have evolved and varied from culture to culture over time. The current community values in the developed world no longer encompass the disenfranchisement of entire categories of people – whether black, LGBT, women, Muslims, Jews, Christians or Native Americans.
    But why is the present moral view more correct than past views? And these current community values are not held world wide, not in Communist or Muslim countries. What makes the West right and them wrong?


    It's not a question of "luck". It's merely Natural Selection doing what Natural Selection does.
    Of course it is luck, there is no aim or goal to any of it. Nature did not decide to set up a system of natural selection, that system too came about by luck.

    Luck: success or failure apparently brought by chance.

    “In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”




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  • Tassman
    replied
    Originally posted by thormas View Post

    Actually there probably were some who believed their acts were immoral. From what I remember such remorse was part of the US soldier experience in some of the unnecessary and brutal extermination of Plains Indians.
    However, as you said, some felt no remorse and justified their action (look at the Crusades) for God or blessed by scripture
    Oh yes. There are almost always some individuals who resist the discriminatory (sometimes brutal) actions of the majority. And these are the individuals who collectively, over time bring about reform - e.g. the abolitionists and the suffragettes etc. ,


    Last edited by Tassman; 10-03-2020, 03:09 AM.

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  • Tassman
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    And why is our moral view "now" correct and their past view "wrong?" Based on what?
    Throughout human history community moral values have evolved and varied from culture to culture over time. The current community values in the developed world no longer encompass the disenfranchisement of entire categories of people – whether black, LGBT, women, Muslims, Jews, Christians or Native Americans.

    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Like I said, some species get lucky and most don't.
    It's not a question of "luck". It's merely Natural Selection doing what Natural Selection does,



    Last edited by Tassman; 10-03-2020, 03:08 AM.

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  • Electric Skeptic
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    \You keep asserting that without evidence. Saying "survival of the fittest" has no meaning. Did some thing design this system of survival? Or did it come about by accident?

    It didn't come from anywhere? Magic? And what created that process besides accidental happenstance?
    It's a consequence of the fact that there are limited resources. Somebody has to die; by definition, it tends to be the less fit.

    Leave a comment:

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