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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Atheism And Moral Progress

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  • Originally posted by seer View Post

    Biology does not aim for anything, It doesn't care, does not intend. Do you mean that some species just happen to survive and others don't happen to survive?
    I mean precisely what I said. "Biology (i.e, natural selection) always aims for survival (as far as a natural process can be said to 'aim' at anything)".
    America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post

      I'm sorry you were not clear. So on what basis would call what the Europeans did to the native tribes of Australia, immoral? And if you did give a clear answer can you show me which post?
      I'm sorry you were unable to parse, understand or remember the repeated answers you've been given to this. I'm not interested in playing your "show me where" game.
      America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by thormas View Post

        The being who searches/longs for something 'beyond' himself for fulfillment/meaning.
        Thanks for the definition.
        America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post

          But you are a materialist, what else is there besides instinct?
          What there is, is the evolved intellectual capacity to categorize ‘acceptable’ and ‘unacceptable’ behavior as a moral code so as to promote our survival as a communal species.

          Biology does not aim for our survival, any more than it did for the millions of extinct species.
          Biology predisposes evolved creatures via Natural Selection to behave so as to survive. The fact that 99% of creatures throughout natural history are now extinct (great Intelligent Design BTW <sarcasm>) does not alter the attempts of living creatures to survive despite all odds being against them. Ever tried to swat a fly?

          And a survival mechanism could just as well include our tribe slaughtering a neighboring tribe and taking all their stuff. And you labeling that as immoral is a fiction. In other words on what basis would you call a perfectly natural behavior immoral?
          “Our tribe slaughtering a neighboring tribe and taking all their stuff” is what humans have done throughout history – including, notably, the Christian colonialists. But, given that much of the bible can be made to reinforce what the society of the day believes at any given period of history, immoral behavior such as this has been rationalized.

          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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          • Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
            I mean precisely what I said. "Biology (i.e, natural selection) always aims for survival (as far as a natural process can be said to 'aim' at anything)".
            Sorry that makes no sense, in what way does biology aim for survival when the majority of species have gone extinct?
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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            • Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
              I'm sorry you were unable to parse, understand or remember the repeated answers you've been given to this. I'm not interested in playing your "show me where" game.
              All you have to do is link the post.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post

                What there is, is the evolved intellectual capacity to categorize ‘acceptable’ and ‘unacceptable’ behavior as a moral code so as to promote our survival as a communal species.
                And why isn't intellectual capacity just as instinctual as anything else? You are a materialist and determinist correct?

                Biology predisposes evolved creatures via Natural Selection to behave so as to survive. The fact that 99% of creatures throughout natural history are now extinct (great Intelligent Design BTW <sarcasm>) does not alter the attempts of living creatures to survive despite all odds being against them. Ever tried to swat a fly?
                Well obviously it didn't work well for 99% of all species. It is more correct to say that some species get lucky and others don't. There is no over all biological aim for survival.

                “Our tribe slaughtering a neighboring tribe and taking all their stuff” is what humans have done throughout history – including, notably, the Christian colonialists. But, given that much of the bible can be made to reinforce what the society of the day believes at any given period of history, immoral behavior such as this has been rationalized.
                The question is why is that immoral? It certainly isn't for the tribes that win. You are not making sense.

                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post
                  I would define it as what is biologically driven. Rather than what is driven by immaterial conceptual truths, thoughts or fact. Because I don't see how a materialist could hold to any position but epiphenomenalism.
                  I'm not an expert in philosophy, but my understanding is that epiphenomenalism is a type of dualism, whereas materialism (more recently physicalism) is a type of monism. So I don't really think a materialist could hold to epiphenomenalism.

                  But back to your definition of "instinctual." If any behavior that is not driven by "immaterial" conceptual truths, thoughts or fact is "instinctual", then yes, all behavior is "instinctual." But that is not a commonly accepted definition.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post

                    Sorry that makes no sense, in what way does biology aim for survival when the majority of species have gone extinct?
                    That's just another way of saying that biology tends to get rid of the species that aren't so good at surviving.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Sorry that makes no sense, in what way does biology aim for survival when the majority of species have gone extinct?
                      It makes perfect sense. What word are you having trouble with?

                      What does the result have to do with what something aims for? My favourite football team aims to win every game - this season they went 3 and 17. Could I say "in what sense to they aim to win when the majority of their games, they lose"?
                      America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post

                        All you have to do is link the post.
                        I'm (still) not interested in playing your "show me where" game.
                        America - too good to let the conservatives drag it back to 1950.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                          That's just another way of saying that biology tends to get rid of the species that aren't so good at surviving.
                          So biology aims that some should survive and others not? I didn't think biology cared - silly me.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                            But back to your definition of "instinctual." If any behavior that is not driven by "immaterial" conceptual truths, thoughts or fact is "instinctual", then yes, all behavior is "instinctual." But that is not a commonly accepted definition.
                            There are some pretty clever animals out there, they build things, use tools and like my dog, problem solve. Is that any more than instinctual?
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Electric Skeptic View Post
                              It makes perfect sense. What word are you having trouble with?

                              What does the result have to do with what something aims for? My favourite football team aims to win every game - this season they went 3 and 17. Could I say "in what sense to they aim to win when the majority of their games, they lose"?
                              But your team has a mental intention to win. There is no such intention in biology.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post

                                There are some pretty clever animals out there, they build things, use tools and like my dog, problem solve. Is that any more than instinctual?
                                Not according to your definition of "instinctual", but as I said, yours is not a commonly accepted definition.

                                Some animals have learned behaviors. I don't consider such behaviors to be instinctual, because I prefer commonly accepted definitions.

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