Originally posted by seer
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Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Atheism And Moral Progress
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Originally posted by seer View PostI was was specific Jim, the Maoist government murdered million of political dissenters, and other non desirables. And this was legal under that regime.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...s-2081630.html
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Originally posted by seer View PostI was was specific Jim, the Maoist government murdered million of political dissenters, and other non desirables. And this was legal under that regime.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...s-2081630.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_massacres“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Seer's tactics in these sorts of threads (over the several years I've witnessed them) is to keep up the stamina to carry on for pages and pages of threads bullishly asking the same questions over and over (and never once actually defending his own idea that morality is objective and comes from his god - threads which have concentrated on this more he just continually tries to turn it into what we see here). Eventually the other poster(s) throw up their arms in exasperation and leave him to it - allowing him to claim a 'win'. He can't even articulate the moral realist point of view without misrepresenting it, even if he doesn't agree with it - his disingenuous questions he repeats above display this.
Though they are almost entirely pointless exercises - seer won't ever 'get it' because he just doesn't want to - they can be illuminating for some of the 'lurkers'. I for one have nothing to add to the discussion that I haven't seen put forward by someone else before in the recent past - his threads with Carp for example were illuminating, as Carp's ability to explain sometimes complex issues and his patience with the seer's deliberate obtuseness was enlightening.
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Originally posted by Stoic View PostSubjective, yes. Arbitrary? I don't think so.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by EvoUK View PostSeer's tactics in these sorts of threads (over the several years I've witnessed them) is to keep up the stamina to carry on for pages and pages of threads bullishly asking the same questions over and over (and never once actually defending his own idea that morality is objective and comes from his god - threads which have concentrated on this more he just continually tries to turn it into what we see here). Eventually the other poster(s) throw up their arms in exasperation and leave him to it - allowing him to claim a 'win'. He can't even articulate the moral realist point of view without misrepresenting it, even if he doesn't agree with it - his disingenuous questions he repeats above display this.
Though they are almost entirely pointless exercises - seer won't ever 'get it' because he just doesn't want to - they can be illuminating for some of the 'lurkers'. I for one have nothing to add to the discussion that I haven't seen put forward by someone else before in the recent past - his threads with Carp for example were illuminating, as Carp's ability to explain sometimes complex issues and his patience with the seer's deliberate obtuseness was enlightening.Last edited by seer; 09-01-2020, 06:44 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNo, you're talking about a civil war and the actions of a narcisistic a-moral autocrat who has singular power like, say a Donald Trump.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostWe no Mao killed millions after he and his regime were fully in power. Never mind the prisons and re-education camps. So why was that wrong?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostTake the hypothetical in mind, seer. Say there is no god, that morals are not objective divine laws. Do you think we would have adopted such laws anyway? If so, why? If not, why not? If you can answer that question then perhaps you'll figure out why certain behaviors are considered to be either right or wrong, good or evil. Your issue seems to be all about there being, or there not being, ultimate consequences for the breaker of moral laws rather than for the purpose moral laws serve. Do you think moral laws serve a human purpose, or do you think they are just arbitrary?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostOf course arbitrary since your moral sense and what you consider moral progress is largely the result of your place and time of birth. Not something you chose.
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Originally posted by Stoic View PostIt's also largely the result of human nature, particularly the ability to empathize with others, along with enlightened self-interest.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostWell human nature can be and is influenced by upbringing. Like growing up in 1930s Germany.
Yes we have the ability to empathize, but we also have the ability to be cruel and selfish.
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Originally posted by Stoic View PostTrue. That helps explain why moral progress can take so long.
Also true. It take enlightenment to see that being cruel and selfish is counterproductive in the long run. And enlightenment takes time.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostReally, progress again? Like I said, you unbelievers really sound like Theist at times. You really do believe in moral progress, and not in the relative sense. I suspect that you really believe there are things that are absolutely wrong and right. Moral ideals that are or should be universal.
Unless cruelty and selfishness is productive for you and your goals, in the long run.
Fortunately, they are generally outnumbered by the rest of us.
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Originally posted by Stoic View PostI suspect that's because you think that if something is subjective, then it doesn't really exist.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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