The Hypocrisy of (some) Atheists...

[seer]

Adaptation to our world is part of nature.

Well primates adapt just fine while including their baser instincts.

Well, make up your mind. Are the Chinese people who you say are being brutalized and have no human rights doing just fine or not?

The point is the threat of physical punishment without the reference to gods is quite effective. The idea that men invented the gods to control others is silly. That is a claim with out evidence.

A supposed senile old fool who has gotten more of his agenda, an agenda he was elected to accomplish, passed with a minority House of reps. and a 50- 50 Senate. If that's what a senile old fool can do, then I'll take the senile old fool. Though your idea that he is senile is just part of your brainwashing. You on the other hand voted for a corrupt, wannabe dictator, and knowing that he attempted to overthrow democracy, you will vote for him again.

You are joking right? 74% of the American people think he is destroying the economy, never mind that we are being flooded with illegals to where even Democrat mayors are begging for it to stop. Most Democrats don't even want the senile old fool to run again. But I pray he runs again...

[JimL]

Well primates adapt just fine while including their baser instincts.

They have no choice, survival of the fittest is instinctual not justice. Humans are more evolved and developed concepts such as justice for all not for the strongest.

The point is the threat of physical punishment without the reference to gods is quite effective. The idea that men invented the gods to control others is silly. That is a claim with out evidence.

Oh, I think there is plenty of evidence. We have to keep people like you in line who without the fear of God in you would make it much more difficult to get you to behave yourself and society more difficult to govern. Or are you claiming morality would still matter to you without Gòd?

You are joking right? 74% of the American people think he is destroying the economy, never mind that we are being flooded with illegals to where even Democrat mayors are begging for it to stop. Most Democrats don't even want the senile old fool to run again. But I pray he runs again...

No, not joking at all. You voted and support a guy who called soldiers who fought and died for their country "suckers", a guy who said General Milly should be executed for treason, a guy who attempted a political coup, a violent insurrection, and who has still not conceded he lost the election. The first President in American history to deny the peaceful transfer of power. A guy who says the Constitution should be suspended if necessary in order that he maintain power, a guy that says he will lock up his political enemies and a guy who calls the free press the enemy of the people and who now says if he takes power once again he will have the press, specifically "NBC" investigated. A man who stole the most highly classified secret documents and hid them obstructing the U.S governments attempt at retrieving them. I could go on, but I realize you Trumpsters are all in denial so it's probably pointless anyway.
I'd like to think that you're just oblivious to all of these things, but I don't think that's the case. Sad!

[seer]

They have no choice, survival of the fittest is instinctual not justice. Humans are more evolved and developed concepts such as justice for all not for the strongest.

Well justice for the strong seems to work in the animal kingdom, and in many countries even today. Why do you have a problem with that natural result?

Oh, I think there is plenty of evidence. We have to keep people like you in line who without the fear of God in you would make it much more difficult to get you to behave yourself and society more difficult to govern. Or are you claiming morality would still matter to you without Gòd?

Morality did matter to me when I was an agnostic, but I was raised in a largely Christian nation, swimming in Christian ethics. I wonder if I would think the same if I was raised in Mao's China? Would you?

No, not joking at all. You voted and support a guy who called soldiers who fought and died for their country "suckers", a guy who said General Milly should be executed for treason, a guy who attempted a political coup, a violent insurrection, and who has still not conceded he lost the election. The first President in American history to deny the peaceful transfer of power. A guy who says the Constitution should be suspended if necessary in order that he maintain power, a guy that says he will lock up his political enemies and a guy who calls the free press the enemy of the people and who now says if he takes power once again he will have the press, specifically "NBC" investigated. A man who stole the most highly classified secret documents and hid them obstructing the U.S governments attempt at retrieving them. I could go on, but I realize you Trumpsters are all in denial so it's probably pointless anyway.
I'd like to think that you're just oblivious to all of these things, but I don't think that's the case. Sad!

What will people like you do if Trump if reelected? BTW I'm supporting DeSantis in the primary...

[JimL]

Well justice for the strong seems to work in the animal kingdom, and in many countries even today. Why do you have a problem with that natural result?

Well because the statement itself: "justice for the strong," makes no sense. That would be the opposite of what justice means.

Morality did matter to me when I was an agnostic, but I was raised in a largely Christian nation, swimming in Christian ethics. I wonder if I would think the same if I was raised in Mao's China? Would you?

That's difficult to say, one could still be impressed with a moral sense in an otherwise atheist culture, but again with a religious God fearing culture it would be much easier and less reliant on each individuals parenting.

What will people like you do if Trump if reelected? BTW I'm supporting DeSantis in the primary...

I really don't know, if that's what the people want, if they choose Authoritarianism over Democracy then that's what they'll have to suffer with. They will, we all will, get what you deserve.

[seer]

Well because the statement itself: "justice for the strong," makes no sense. That would be the opposite of what justice means.

Jim, in atheism there is no objective or universal definition of justice, so the strong define it to suit their goals. It's all relative - remember?

That's difficult to say, one could still be impressed with a moral sense in an otherwise atheist culture, but again with a religious God fearing culture it would be much easier and less reliant on each individuals parenting.

I'm not sure what that moral sense is or where it comes from in atheism, especially if moral relativism is true. It can't just be nature since our natural proclivities can be just as selfish and cruel as kind or giving.

I really don't know, if that's what the people want, if they choose Authoritarianism over Democracy then that's what they'll have to suffer with. They will, we all will, get what you deserve.

How was Trump an Authoritarian during his Presidency? What policies or laws did he pass or support that would make you think that? Yes you have Jan6 but he probably really did believe (like Hilary did when she lost) that the election was stolen. Let's face it, on the 6th he had thousands and thousands of people there - he could have taken control of the house and senate, and since the election was still not certified he still had control of the military. I guess he missed his big chance...

[JimL]

Jim, in atheism there is no objective or universal definition of justice, so the strong define it to suit their goals. It's all relative - remember

Though there may be no objective standard of morality in atheism, as far as human beings are concerned there is no objective standard from the religious perspective either. That's why Moses, it is said, just came down the mountain with 10 that he could think off. But there is an objective goal which in my opinion is to maintain a civil society.

I'm not sure what that moral sense is or where it comes from in atheism, especially if moral relativism is true. It can't just be nature since our natural proclivities can be just as selfish and cruel as kind or giving.

It comes from us silly.

How was Trump an Authoritarian during his Presidency? What policies or laws did he pass or support that would make you think that? Yes you have Jan6 but he probably really did believe (like Hilary did when she lost) that the election was stolen. Let's face it, on the 6th he had thousands and thousands of people there - he could have taken control of the house and senate, and since the election was still not certified he still had control of the military. I guess he missed his big chance...

Wannabe dictator seer. It proved to be too difficult for him to achieve in one term but give him and his corrupt handlers another shot at it and he will get there because he will feel he has a mandate to do so. His rhetoric alone is telling us that. He will put loyalist in lead positions in every democratic institution, people like General Flynn, Steve Bannon, Giuliani, Jeffery Clark and any other unprincipled loyalist that he can find, fire anyone who stands up for the Constitution and against him, and as we have seen there are very few in his party that will then stand up to him. He went nuts when that plan fell apart after losing the election and so attempted a political and violent coup. That failed as well. But give him another shot and he's telling you already, just so that you won't be shocked when he does it, exactly what he will do. "General Milley should be executed for treason."

Have you ever noticed how he says: My Judges, My Generals, My Atty. General. My, my, my. Those are the words of a dictator.

[seer]

Though there may be no objective standard of morality in atheism, as far as human beings are concerned there is no objective standard from the religious perspective either. That's why Moses, it is said, just came down the mountain with 10 that he could think off. But there is an objective goal which in my opinion is to maintain a civil society.

How do you know that God didn't speak to Moses? But the fact is, theists do believe in objective moral truths, you don't. So by your own belief system the definition of justice is both arbitrary and relative.

It comes from us silly.

There are two golden rules Jim, 'do unto to others' and 'he with the most gold rules.' And in a morally relative world neither view is more correct or valid than the other.