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Cogito ergo sum

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The Hypocrisy of (some) Atheists...

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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post

    Adaptation to our world is part of nature.
    Well primates adapt just fine while including their baser instincts.

    Well, make up your mind. Are the Chinese people who you say are being brutalized and have no human rights doing just fine or not?
    The point is the threat of physical punishment without the reference to gods is quite effective. The idea that men invented the gods to control others is silly. That is a claim with out evidence.

    A supposed senile old fool who has gotten more of his agenda, an agenda he was elected to accomplish, passed with a minority House of reps. and a 50- 50 Senate. If that's what a senile old fool can do, then I'll take the senile old fool. Though your idea that he is senile is just part of your brainwashing. You on the other hand voted for a corrupt, wannabe dictator, and knowing that he attempted to overthrow democracy, you will vote for him again.
    You are joking right? 74% of the American people think he is destroying the economy, never mind that we are being flooded with illegals to where even Democrat mayors are begging for it to stop. Most Democrats don't even want the senile old fool to run again. But I pray he runs again...

    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post

      Well primates adapt just fine while including their baser instincts.
      They have no choice, survival of the fittest is instinctual not justice. Humans are more evolved and developed concepts such as justice for all not for the strongest.

      The point is the threat of physical punishment without the reference to gods is quite effective. The idea that men invented the gods to control others is silly. That is a claim with out evidence.
      Oh, I think there is plenty of evidence. We have to keep people like you in line who without the fear of God in you would make it much more difficult to get you to behave yourself and society more difficult to govern. Or are you claiming morality would still matter to you without Gňd?

      You are joking right? 74% of the American people think he is destroying the economy, never mind that we are being flooded with illegals to where even Democrat mayors are begging for it to stop. Most Democrats don't even want the senile old fool to run again. But I pray he runs again...
      No, not joking at all. You voted and support a guy who called soldiers who fought and died for their country "suckers", a guy who said General Milly should be executed for treason, a guy who attempted a political coup, a violent insurrection, and who has still not conceded he lost the election. The first President in American history to deny the peaceful transfer of power. A guy who says the Constitution should be suspended if necessary in order that he maintain power, a guy that says he will lock up his political enemies and a guy who calls the free press the enemy of the people and who now says if he takes power once again he will have the press, specifically "NBC" investigated. A man who stole the most highly classified secret documents and hid them obstructing the U.S governments attempt at retrieving them. I could go on, but I realize you Trumpsters are all in denial so it's probably pointless anyway.
      I'd like to think that you're just oblivious to all of these things, but I don't think that's the case. Sad!
      Last edited by JimL; 09-29-2023, 12:41 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post

        They have no choice, survival of the fittest is instinctual not justice. Humans are more evolved and developed concepts such as justice for all not for the strongest.
        Well justice for the strong seems to work in the animal kingdom, and in many countries even today. Why do you have a problem with that natural result?


        Oh, I think there is plenty of evidence. We have to keep people like you in line who without the fear of God in you would make it much more difficult to get you to behave yourself and society more difficult to govern. Or are you claiming morality would still matter to you without Gňd?
        Morality did matter to me when I was an agnostic, but I was raised in a largely Christian nation, swimming in Christian ethics. I wonder if I would think the same if I was raised in Mao's China? Would you?


        No, not joking at all. You voted and support a guy who called soldiers who fought and died for their country "suckers", a guy who said General Milly should be executed for treason, a guy who attempted a political coup, a violent insurrection, and who has still not conceded he lost the election. The first President in American history to deny the peaceful transfer of power. A guy who says the Constitution should be suspended if necessary in order that he maintain power, a guy that says he will lock up his political enemies and a guy who calls the free press the enemy of the people and who now says if he takes power once again he will have the press, specifically "NBC" investigated. A man who stole the most highly classified secret documents and hid them obstructing the U.S governments attempt at retrieving them. I could go on, but I realize you Trumpsters are all in denial so it's probably pointless anyway.
        I'd like to think that you're just oblivious to all of these things, but I don't think that's the case. Sad!
        What will people like you do if Trump if reelected? BTW I'm supporting DeSantis in the primary...
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post

          Well justice for the strong seems to work in the animal kingdom, and in many countries even today. Why do you have a problem with that natural result?
          Well because the statement itself: "justice for the strong," makes no sense. That would be the opposite of what justice means.


          Morality did matter to me when I was an agnostic, but I was raised in a largely Christian nation, swimming in Christian ethics. I wonder if I would think the same if I was raised in Mao's China? Would you?
          That's difficult to say, one could still be impressed with a moral sense in an otherwise atheist culture, but again with a religious God fearing culture it would be much easier and less reliant on each individuals parenting.


          What will people like you do if Trump if reelected? BTW I'm supporting DeSantis in the primary...
          I really don't know, if that's what the people want, if they choose Authoritarianism over Democracy then that's what they'll have to suffer with. They will, we all will, get what you deserve.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JimL View Post

            Well because the statement itself: "justice for the strong," makes no sense. That would be the opposite of what justice means.
            Jim, in atheism there is no objective or universal definition of justice, so the strong define it to suit their goals. It's all relative - remember?


            That's difficult to say, one could still be impressed with a moral sense in an otherwise atheist culture, but again with a religious God fearing culture it would be much easier and less reliant on each individuals parenting.
            I'm not sure what that moral sense is or where it comes from in atheism, especially if moral relativism is true. It can't just be nature since our natural proclivities can be just as selfish and cruel as kind or giving.


            I really don't know, if that's what the people want, if they choose Authoritarianism over Democracy then that's what they'll have to suffer with. They will, we all will, get what you deserve.
            How was Trump an Authoritarian during his Presidency? What policies or laws did he pass or support that would make you think that? Yes you have Jan6 but he probably really did believe (like Hilary did when she lost) that the election was stolen. Let's face it, on the 6th he had thousands and thousands of people there - he could have taken control of the house and senate, and since the election was still not certified he still had control of the military. I guess he missed his big chance...
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seer View Post

              Jim, in atheism there is no objective or universal definition of justice, so the strong define it to suit their goals. It's all relative - remember
              Though there may be no objective standard of morality in atheism, as far as human beings are concerned there is no objective standard from the religious perspective either. That's why Moses, it is said, just came down the mountain with 10 that he could think off. But there is an objective goal which in my opinion is to maintain a civil society.


              I'm not sure what that moral sense is or where it comes from in atheism, especially if moral relativism is true. It can't just be nature since our natural proclivities can be just as selfish and cruel as kind or giving.
              It comes from us silly.


              How was Trump an Authoritarian during his Presidency? What policies or laws did he pass or support that would make you think that? Yes you have Jan6 but he probably really did believe (like Hilary did when she lost) that the election was stolen. Let's face it, on the 6th he had thousands and thousands of people there - he could have taken control of the house and senate, and since the election was still not certified he still had control of the military. I guess he missed his big chance...
              Wannabe dictator seer. It proved to be too difficult for him to achieve in one term but give him and his corrupt handlers another shot at it and he will get there because he will feel he has a mandate to do so. His rhetoric alone is telling us that. He will put loyalist in lead positions in every democratic institution, people like General Flynn, Steve Bannon, Giuliani, Jeffery Clark and any other unprincipled loyalist that he can find, fire anyone who stands up for the Constitution and against him, and as we have seen there are very few in his party that will then stand up to him. He went nuts when that plan fell apart after losing the election and so attempted a political and violent coup. That failed as well. But give him another shot and he's telling you already, just so that you won't be shocked when he does it, exactly what he will do. "General Milley should be executed for treason."

              Have you ever noticed how he says: My Judges, My Generals, My Atty. General. My, my, my. Those are the words of a dictator.
              Last edited by JimL; 10-02-2023, 10:21 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JimL View Post

                Though there may be no objective standard of morality in atheism, as far as human beings are concerned there is no objective standard from the religious perspective either. That's why Moses, it is said, just came down the mountain with 10 that he could think off. But there is an objective goal which in my opinion is to maintain a civil society.
                How do you know that God didn't speak to Moses? But the fact is, theists do believe in objective moral truths, you don't. So by your own belief system the definition of justice is both arbitrary and relative.

                It comes from us silly.
                There are two golden rules Jim, 'do unto to others' and 'he with the most gold rules.' And in a morally relative world neither view is more correct or valid than the other.




                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Let me frame this with two quotes from Dawkins



                  See the problem? It is not only Dawkins, but many non-believers hold this view. They will rail against these perceived Old Testament evils, yet they have no basis, no rational grounds to label anything evil. The objections are meaningless moral babble...
                  Yep. Deep down, they're better than their professed, degenerate, ignorant philosophy gives them credit for.
                  Many and painful are the researches sometimes necessary to be made, for settling points of [this] kind. Pertness and ignorance may ask a question in three lines, which it will cost learning and ingenuity thirty pages to answer. When this is done, the same question shall be triumphantly asked again the next year, as if nothing had ever been written upon the subject.
                  George Horne

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer
                    Well yes if it was actually ordered by God.
                    It is unlikely, because it is common in history for a tribe to appeal to Divine authority in wars like Putin does today appealing to Divine Manifest Destiny of the Russian Orthodox Church and Czarist Russian claims of Dominion over Eastern Europe and Russian Asia.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                      It is unlikely, because it is common in history for a tribe to appeal to Divine authority in wars like Putin does today appealing to Divine Manifest Destiny of the Russian Orthodox Church and Czarist Russian claims of Dominion over Eastern Europe and Russian Asia.
                      Because it was common does not mean it wasn't ordered by God in certain instances.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post

                        Because it was common does not mean it wasn't ordered by God in certain instances.
                        Biblically "in certain instances": is problematic, This is the reason I do not isolate the scripture, I consider all scripture in the context of the whole history of humanity.

                        It is the rule that in history tribes justified their wars against other tribes appeal to the God of the manifest destiny of their religious beliefs often underlying their territorial claims,
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                          Biblically "in certain instances": is problematic, This is the reason I do not isolate the scripture, I consider all scripture in the context of the whole history of humanity.

                          It is the rule that in history tribes justified their wars against other tribes appeal to the God of the manifest destiny of their religious beliefs often underlying their territorial claims,
                          Again, it does not then logically follow that God did not order such things. Unless you have the belief that God wouldn't do such a thing - but that is just a bias.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post

                            Again, it does not then logically follow that God did not order such things. Unless you have the belief that God wouldn't do such a thing - but that is just a bias.
                            This only follows if you consider the Pentateuch literal a history, and on this rational, also if you believe in a God that justifies cruel tribal wars amd worse to achieve Divine goals.

                            Again, the more logical Biblically "in certain instances": is problematic, This is the reason I do not isolate the scripture, I consider all scripture in the context of the whole history of humanity.

                            It is the rule that in history tribes justified their wars against other tribes appeal to the God of the manifest destiny of their religious beliefs often underlying their territorial claims,ne of thought relates to how human nature justifies their tribal wars as the Hamas war in Palestine.

                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by seer View Post

                              Again, it does not then logically follow that God did not order such things. Unless you have the belief that God wouldn't do such a thing - but that is just a bias.
                              To add: I believe God would not do such a thing.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                                To add: I believe God would not do such a thing.
                                Why not? Wasn't Moses, who called for many of these battles, a manifestation of God?
                                Last edited by seer; 02-02-2024, 08:23 AM.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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