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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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The Hypocrisy of (some) Atheists...

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  • The Hypocrisy of (some) Atheists...

    Let me frame this with two quotes from Dawkins

    The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent..."

    "In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”


    See the problem? It is not only Dawkins, but many non-believers hold this view. They will rail against these perceived Old Testament evils, yet they have no basis, no rational grounds to label anything evil. The objections are meaningless moral babble...

    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Dawkins seems to confusing Yahweh with Allah.
    P1) If , then I win.

    P2)

    C) I win.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
      Dawkins seems to confusing Yahweh with Allah.
      Well he is getting on...
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        also it seems if they think God is evil and capricious and the universe is indifferent and not good, then that is exactly the type of universe they should expect from such a God. Why aren't they all theists then?


        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          also it seems if they think God is evil and capricious and the universe is indifferent and not good, then that is exactly the type of universe they should expect from such a God. Why aren't they all theists then?
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Let me frame this with two quotes from Dawkins



            See the problem? It is not only Dawkins, but many non-believers hold this view. They will rail against these perceived Old Testament evils, yet they have no basis, no rational grounds to label anything evil. The objections are meaningless moral babble...
            Yes, I see the problems.

            1) You are claiming that Dawkins was labelling God as 'evil', when he did not actually do so. The first quote does not include the word 'evil'.

            2) Dawkins saying the universe is neither good nor evil doesn't mean that there can't be individuals (or deities) within that universe that are good or evil.

            3) You think your religion (and others like it) hold a monopoly on morality, and that no moral judgements are possible without it. You are wrong.
            Last edited by Roy; 08-31-2023, 10:00 AM.
            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
            MM on climate change: Looking at the historical temperature data in my region over the past ten years shows that temperatures have been stable ...

            mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              also it seems if they think God is evil and capricious and the universe is indifferent and not good, then that is exactly the type of universe they should expect from such a God. Why aren't they all theists then?
              Because indifference is not what we'd expect from a good deity or an evil capricious one.

              Have you fallen into the trap of thinking evil is just an absence of goodness, rather than the opposite of it?

              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
              MM on climate change: Looking at the historical temperature data in my region over the past ten years shows that temperatures have been stable ...

              mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                also it seems if they think God is evil and capricious and the universe is indifferent and not good, then that is exactly the type of universe they should expect from such a God. Why aren't they all theists then?
                Because it's also exactly the type of universe we would expect if there was no God.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                  Because it's also exactly the type of universe we would expect if there was no God.
                  If there were no God, there would be no universe.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Roy View Post
                    Yes, I see the problems.

                    1) You are claiming that Dawkins was labelling God as 'evil', when he did not actually do so. The first quote does not include the word 'evil'.

                    2) Dawkins saying the universe is neither good nor evil doesn't mean that there can't be individuals (or deities) within that universe that are good or evil.

                    3) You think your religion (and others like it) hold a monopoly on morality, and that no moral judgements are possible without it. You are wrong.
                    No, on what basis is Dawkins call any act of the God of the Bible or the God of the Koran evil? Like I said: They will rail against these perceived Old Testament evils, yet they have no basis, no rational grounds to label anything evil.

                    And yes, I am claiming that there are no objective moral truths possible apart from Theism.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      Because indifference is not what we'd expect from a good deity or an evil capricious one.
                      But the God of Scripture certainly is not indifferent. Sending His own Son to save us. That is the furthest thing from indifference.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seer View Post

                        No, on what basis is Dawkins calling any act of the God of the Bible or the God of the Koran evil? Like I said: They will rail against these perceived Old Testament evils, yet they have no basis, no rational grounds to label anything evil.

                        And yes, I am claiming that there are no objective moral truths possible apart from Theism.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          No, on what basis is Dawkins call any act of the God of the Bible or the God of the Koran evil?
                          You haven't quoted Dawkins saying any act of God was 'evil'. No basis is needed for something that hasn't happened.
                          And yes, I am claiming that there are no objective moral truths possible apart from Theism.
                          Aw, bless.

                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
                          MM on climate change: Looking at the historical temperature data in my region over the past ten years shows that temperatures have been stable ...

                          mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Because indifference is not what we'd expect from a good deity or an evil capricious one.
                            But the God of Scripture certainly is not indifferent. Sending His own Son to save us. That is the furthest thing from indifference.
                            You are confused.

                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
                            MM on climate change: Looking at the historical temperature data in my region over the past ten years shows that temperatures have been stable ...

                            mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Roy View Post
                              You haven't quoted Dawkins saying any act of God was 'evil'. No basis is needed for something that hasn't happened.
                              Aw, bless.
                              The important question is to which type of "Theism" is our friend referring? PolyTHEISM, PanTHEISM, HenoTHEISM?
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment

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