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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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On Moral Realism

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  • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

    Again no . . . God Created the Laws of Nature and natural processes, which are sufficient for the processes of evolution to produce the morals and ethics we find in humanity today.
    You can't have it both ways, if human intellect is the result of God's intervention then no the natural process of evolution can not explain our rationality, Which is necessary to create laws.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post

      You can't have it both ways, if human intellect is the result of God's intervention then no the natural process of evolution can not explain our rationality, Which is necessary to create laws.
      It is ONLY ONW WAY . . . God Created the Laws of Nature and natural processes, which are sufficient for the processes of evolution to produce the morals and ethics we find in humanity today.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

        It is ONLY ONW WAY . . . God Created the Laws of Nature and natural processes, which are sufficient for the processes of evolution to produce the morals and ethics we find in humanity today.
        Shuny, was the human intellect supernaturally created by God or was it the result of natural processes?
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post

          Shuny, was the human intellect supernaturally created by God or was it the result of natural processes?
          Human intellect was naturally Created by God through natural processes.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

            Human intellect was naturally Created by God through natural processes.
            No, not according to your religion:

            The essential identity of every human being is a rational and immortal soul, which is entirely out of the order of the physical creation.” Bahá’u’lláh uses the metaphor of the sun to explain the relationship between the soul and the body: “The soul of man is the sun by which his body is illumined, and from which it draweth its sustenance, and should be so regarded.”

            It is through the exercise of the powers of the soul that human progress is achieved. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá has said that the soul “can discover the realities of things, comprehend the peculiarities of beings, and penetrate the mysteries of existence. All sciences, knowledge, arts, wonders, institutions, discoveries and enterprises come from the exercised intelligence of the rational soul.”

            https://www.bahai.org/beliefs/life-spirit/human-soul
            The rational soul, which is our intelligence is entirely out of the order of the physical creation.”
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seer View Post

              No, not according to your religion:



              The rational soul, which is our intelligence is entirely out of the order of the physical creation.”
              As cited the process is God Created the Laws of Nature and as cited humans evolved.

              You selective biased use of references based on a anti-science religious agenda is getting tiring. End of dialogue..
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                As cited the process is God Created the Laws of Nature and as cited humans evolved.

                You selective biased use of references based on a anti-science religious agenda is getting tiring. End of dialogue..
                You are so full of it Shuny, nothing I posted is out of context. The rational soul is totally entirely out of the order of the physical creation.” And the soul is the source of our intellect, and it not material...Game set and match!
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post

                  You are so full of it Shuny, nothing I posted is out of context. The rational soul is totally entirely out of the order of the physical creation.” And the soul is the source of our intellect, and it not material...Game set and match!
                  Yes, of course, but still withing the scope of Divinely directed evolution. I believe thesoul evolved alongwith physical Creation, and this is bot compatable with the beliefs of the Baha'i Faith and physical evolution..
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • Back to Moral Realism. This is an interesting lecture for discussion on the topic:

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFHPH3m-KR8

                    I do not believe any of the Moral and Ethics philosophies hsve significant explanatory power, because they are very circular in their reasoning where the philosophies justify themselves. Polls of philosophies cannot justify the validity of any one philosophy.
                    Last edited by shunyadragon; 04-08-2023, 07:41 AM.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                      Yes, of course, but still withing the scope of Divinely directed evolution. I believe thesoul evolved alongwith physical Creation, and this is bot compatable with the beliefs of the Baha'i Faith and physical evolution..
                      As your religion teaches the rational soul is: entirely out of the order of the physical creation.”
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post

                        As your religion teaches the rational soul is: entirely out of the order of the physical creation.”
                        No response and selective out of context citations gets you nowhere except the increasing aggressive bias towards science and those that believe differently.

                        Again . . .


                        Yes, of course, but still withing the scope of Divinely directed evolution. I believe the soul evolved along with physical Creation, and this is compatable with the beliefs of the Baha'i Faith and physical evolution..
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                          No response and selective out of context citations gets you nowhere except the increasing aggressive bias towards science and those that believe differently.

                          Again . . .


                          Yes, of course, but still withing the scope of Divinely directed evolution. I believe the soul evolved along with physical Creation, and this is compatable with the beliefs of the Baha'i Faith and physical evolution..
                          No Shuny, I gave you the full quotes. The rational soul is not the result of natural processes:

                          The essential identity of every human being is a rational and immortal soul, which is entirely out of the order of the physical creation.” Bahá’u’lláh uses the metaphor of the sun to explain the relationship between the soul and the body: “The soul of man is the sun by which his body is illumined, and from which it draweth its sustenance, and should be so regarded.”
                          The rational soul is not PHYSICAL. Or Shuny are you saying that the rational soul is physical?
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post

                            No Shuny, I gave you the full quotes. The rational soul is not the result of natural processes:



                            The rational soul is not PHYSICAL. Or Shuny are you saying that the rational soul is physical?
                            I never asserted the rational soul is physical or the result of physical processes. The rational soul evolves under God's Divine guidance as well as our physical existence and nature evolves uder God's Divine guidance based on the Natural was determined by God.

                            Your bold and red only reinforces your extreme aggressive agenda against science and the Harmony of Religion and Science principle.
                            Last edited by shunyadragon; 04-10-2023, 08:09 AM.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                              I never asserted the rational soul is physical or the result of physical processes. The rational soul evolves under God's Divine guidance as well as our physical existence and nature evolves uder God's Divine guidance based on the Natural was determined by God.

                              Your bold and red only reinforces your extreme aggressive agenda against science and the Harmony of Religion and Science principle.
                              So the rational soul is not physical, so it is not scientific, it does not agree with science.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post

                                So the rational soul is not physical, so it is not scientific, it does not agree with science.
                                Yes, it is not physical, Yes it agrees with science. There is no conflict between physical evolution and the spiritual evolution of the souls based on the Harmony of science and religion. The soul cannot be observed nor falsified by science, but the attributes of the rational soul may be observed and falsified as the evolved nature of humanity. Methodological Naturalism cannot determine the distinction between what is the spiritually evolved and physically evolved. It simply falsifies the objective observations of the evolved nature of being human.
                                Last edited by shunyadragon; 04-10-2023, 12:11 PM.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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