On Moral Realism

[shunyadragon]

But that God is not a tribal God - agreed? And BTW Christianity is also a universal Religion, and that came 1800 years before your faith.

I never said God is a tribal God. Ancient tribal religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam are tribal religions relating only to the culture and time the scripture is written. They have no universal perspective outside their culture and time. The Progressive Revelation evolves the Spiritual nature of humanity as in the OT to the NT.

You did not respond to this and answer the question: Revelation is progressive over time, and evolves spiritual morals and ethics with humanity. As humanity evolves God's spiritual laws evolve. Do you still approve of slavery as moral and ethical today?

[seer]

I never said God is a tribal God. Ancient tribal religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam are tribal religions relating only to the culture and time the scripture is written. They have no universal perspective outside their culture and time. The Progressive Revelation evolves the Spiritual nature of humanity as in the OT to the NT.

That is just anti-historical, Christianity was clearly a universal religion, applied to Jew and Gentile, no matter the nationality, and today is the largest Religion in the world.

You did not respond to this and answer the question: Revelation is progressive over time, and evolves spiritual morals and ethics with humanity. As humanity evolves God's spiritual laws evolve. Do you still approve of slavery as moral and ethical today?

You answer me, was slavery moral in Moses day?

[shunyadragon]

That is just anti-historical, Christianity was clearly a universal religion, applied to Jew and Gentile, no matter the nationality, and today is the largest Religion in the world.




You answer me, was slavery moral in Moses day?

In Moses's nor in Christ's Revelation slavery was not prohibited. It is today in the Baha'i Revelation as of the mid nineteenth century.

You have not answered my question: Revelation is progressive over time, and evolves spiritual morals and ethics with humanity. As humanity evolves God's spiritual laws evolve. Do you still approve of slavery as moral and ethical today?

[seer]

In Moses's nor in Christ's Revelation slavery was not prohibited. It is today in the Baha'i Revelation as of the mid nineteenth century.

So? The question was, was slavery immoral in Moses's time?

You have not answered my question: Revelation is progressive over time, and evolves spiritual morals and ethics with humanity. As humanity evolves God's spiritual laws evolve. Do you still approve of slavery as moral and ethical today?

Actually for the most part no. Things like adultery, murder, rape, theft, fraud, homosexuality, etc... were as immoral in the day of Moses and Christ as they are today.

[Stoic]

So how are we not back to moral relativism.

If science can objectively determine what makes most people happy, and there is no reason to believe that it can't, then utilitarianism is not moral relativism.

[seer]

If science can objectively determine what makes most people happy, and there is no reason to believe that it can't, then utilitarianism is not moral relativism.

Hell, you don't need science for that. The question is why is the happiness of the majority a moral good? Why not the happiness of an elite minority at the expense of the majority, or the happiness of the majority at the expense of the minority?

[Diogenes]

If science can objectively determine what makes most people happy, and there is no reason to believe that it can't, then utilitarianism is not moral relativism.

So if people being constantly drugged makes people happy, should people be constantly drugged? Also, utility monsters.

[Stoic]

So if people being constantly drugged makes people happy, should people be constantly drugged? Also, utility monsters.

I'm not arguing in favor of utilitarianism. Just pointing out that utilitarianism is a form of naturalistic moral realism.

[Diogenes]

I'm not arguing in favor of utilitarianism. Just pointing out that utilitarianism is a form of naturalistic moral realism.

They would still have to demonstrate that being happy is "good".

[Stoic]

Hell, you don't need science for that. The question is why is the happiness of the majority a moral good? Why not the happiness of an elite minority at the expense of the majority, or the happiness of the majority at the expense of the minority?

Those are valid questions to ask a utilitarian.

Of course, there are similar valid question that said utilitarian might ask a proponent of Divine Command Theory.

[Stoic]

They would still have to demonstrate that being happy is "good".

Like someone who thinks the Bible is the source for morality would have to demonstrate why that is so?

[seer]

Those are valid questions to ask a utilitarian.

Of course, there are similar valid question that said utilitarian might ask a proponent of Divine Command Theory.

Well no, if we were created by God then there is an objective way for men to live morally. An objective purpose. No such objective purpose or ethical standard does or can exist in naturalism.

[seer]

Just pointing out that utilitarianism is a form of naturalistic moral realism.

No it is not, based on the questions I asked.

[Diogenes]

Like someone who thinks the Bible is the source for morality would have to demonstrate why that is so?

Of course, why would I say otherwise?


Personally I tend to view "Biblical morality" in an eudæmonic light.

[shunyadragon]

That is just anti-historical, Christianity was clearly a universal religion, applied to Jew and Gentile, no matter the nationality, and today is the largest Religion in the world.

Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism each make the subjective claim to be the universal religion. Claiming to be the universal is a subjective claim and only believed by those in each diverse conflicting religion. The reality is they all reflect an ancient tribal culture and time they were revealed.

Being the largest is only a claim of popularity and not a claim based on objective evidence.