On Moral Realism

[seer]

Yes, it is not physical, Yes it agrees with science. There is no conflict between physical evolution and the spiritual evolution of the souls based on the Harmony of science and religion. The soul cannot be observed nor falsified by science, but the attributes of the rational soul may be observed and falsified as the evolved nature of humanity. Methodological Naturalism cannot determine the distinction between what is the spiritually evolved and physically evolved. It simply falsifies the objective observations of the evolved nature of being human.

How does the existence rational soul agree with science? Would evolutionary theory agree that the process created an immortal rational soul?

[shunyadragon]

So the rational soul is not physical, so it is not scientific, it does not agree with science.

To add science cannot falsify the existence of God, the soul, or that God Created our physical existence, and that the attributes of God as reflected in nature such as the Laws of Nature, Science simply falsifies the nature of our physical existence, and the evolved nature of being human regardless of whether they are the evolved physical attributes or spiritual attributes of the soul and everything else.

There is no possible way science can disagree with as God Created of everything physical or spiritual, because Science only falsifies the objective verifiable evidence of the outward expression and evidence of God's Creation.

[seer]

To add science cannot falsify the existence of God, the soul, or that God Created our physical existence, and that the attributes of God as reflected in nature such as the Laws of Nature, Science simply falsifies the nature of our physical existence, and the evolved nature of being human regardless of whether they are the evolved physical attributes or spiritual attributes of the soul and everything else.

There is no possible way science can disagree with as God Created of everything physical or spiritual, because Science only falsifies the objective verifiable evidence of the outward expression and evidence of God's Creation.

OK, which scientists agree that there is an immortal soul? Which scientific theory points to an immortal soul?

[shunyadragon]

How does the existence rational soul agree with science? Would evolutionary theory agree that the process created an immortal rational soul?

There is no disagreement, because science cannot objectively falsify, nor confirm the existence or non-existence of the soul. Science observes any behavior related to the soul as the evolving behavior of humanity.

The belief in the Harmony of science and Religion is there is no conflict between the spiritual and physical nature of our existence. God does not create contradictions,

[shunyadragon]

OK, which scientists agree that there is an immortal soul?

Scientists who believe in an immortal soul do so based on 'faith' according to their chosen religious belief, and not science.

Which scientific theory points to an immortal soul?

In science it is not possible for any hypothesis or theory that would point to an immortal soul. Methodological Naturalism can only falsify theories and hypothesis based on objective evidence. Their is not any objective evidence for the existence of the soul. Science can objectively observe human behavior, but cannot determine behvhior that some attribute to the soul.

[seer]

Scientists who believe in an immortal soul do so based on 'faith' according to their chosen religious belief, and not science.

Right so the existence of the soul does not agree with science.

In science it is not possible for any hypothesis or theory that would point to an immortal soul. Methodological Naturalism can only falsify theories and hypothesis based on objective evidence. Their is not any objective evidence for the existence of the soul. Science can objectively observe human behavior, but cannot determine behvhior that some attribute to the soul.

The rational soul is what separates us from the lower animals. And that soul is not physical. And science would not agree that our intellect is cause by the rational soul. So your again belief does not agree with science.

[shunyadragon]

Right so the existence of the soul does not agree with science.

False, science does not agree nor disagree with the existence of the soul. It is beyond the perview of science and a question of ;belief' based on 'faith'

The rational soul is what separates us from the lower animals. And that soul is not physical.

True.

And science would not agree that our intellect is cause by the rational soul.

False, as repeatedly stated. Science does not agree nor disagree, because the 'belief' that 'our intellect is caused by the rational soul.' The fact that science cannot falsify the the immortal soul nor the attributes of the soul does not make it in conflict with the Beliefs of the Baha'i Faith. The sum total of all the objective observable factors of the nature of human intellect and behavior is in harmony with Baha'i beliefs.

So your again belief does not agree with science.

Again, no, as described in detail many many times this is not true. Science cannot falsify any 'beliefs' beyond the objective verifiable evidence. It simple observes the nature of human intellect and behavior based on the observable evidence and cannot differentiate the claims of 'belief' concerning what is attributable to the soul. Therefore their is not conflict between the beliefs of the Baha'i Faith and science. The religious beliefs attributes attributed to the soul are a question of religion, and only observed by science as the intellect and behavior objectively observed.

[shunyadragon]

Right so the existence of the soul does not agree with science.





The rational soul is what separates us from the lower animals. And that soul is not physical. And science would not agree that our intellect is cause by the rational soul. So your again belief does not agree with science.

To make it very very clear, just because something. as the soul and the attributes of the soul, is beyond the ability of science to falsify, does not translate into a conflict between the Baha'i Faith beliefs and science. It would be in conflict with those that believe that science is capable of objectively observe and determine the attributes of the soul.

[seer]

...does not translate into a conflict between the Baha'i Faith beliefs and science.

Of course it does, on its face. Would science agree that the human intellect is cause by an immaterial, non-physical soul?

[shunyadragon]

Of course it does, on its face. Would science agree that the human intellect is cause by an immaterial, non-physical soul?

Your 'on ir's face' reflects and anti-science and anti-Baha'i perspective that wants to see conflict when there is none. Science cannot make hypothesis concerning the non-physical world. therefore it cannot be in conflict unless one disagrees with the science concerning what can be objectively observed by science, and the Baha'i Faith makes no such objection. The Baha'i Faith makes the diseiction between what is physical versus what is spiritual concerning the soul. which is simply the distinction science cannot make based on spiritual teachings..

No it is not, science cannot make the distinction that the human intellect is the cause by an immaterial non-physical soul. This beyond the ability of science. Science observes the evolution of the intellectual, and human behavior, and does not make the determination, This is in harmony with the Baha'i Faith that makes the determination beyond what science is not capable of.

[seer]

No it is not, science cannot make the distinction that the human intellect is the cause by an immaterial non-physical soul.

But science would, and does, say that the human intellect is the result of purely natural processes.

In fact, humans have shown an enormous increase in brain size and intelligence over millions of years of evolution. This is because humans have been referred to as an 'evolved cultural species'; one that has an unrivalled reliance on culturally transmitted knowledge due to the social environment around us.

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1308/1308.5034.pdf

So in fact your view of the source of human intelligence is contrary to science.

[shunyadragon]

But science would, and does, say that the human intellect is the result of purely natural processes.

Actually NO, science determines that it can pnly falsify what is detectably by Methodological Naturalism. Science cannot determine if what is objectively observed is from a source outside natural processes.

The Baha'i Faith teaches everything including Natural Laws and Natural Processes are Divinely Created, but science cannot determine this. Therefore, Science is in harmony with the Baha'i beliefs, because science cannot falsify nor determine what is Divinely Created including morals, values, intelligence and anything else to do with human nature.



So in fact your view of the source of human intelligence is contrary to science. [/QUOTE]

No, as described above. Science is simply neutral as to what is Divinely Created, and not in conflict nor contrary with what the Bahai Faith teaches is Divinely Created or determined.by God as attributes of human nature.

[shunyadragon]

Actually NO, science determines that it can only falsify what is detectably by Methodological Naturalism. Science cannot determine if what is objectively observed is from a source outside natural processes.

The Baha'i Faith teaches everything including Natural Laws and Natural Processes are Divinely Created, but science cannot determine this. Therefore, Science is in harmony with the Baha'i beliefs, because science cannot falsify nor determine what is Divinely Created including morals, values, intelligence and anything else to do with human nature. Science can only objectively observe the nature of morals, ethics and intelligence, and the nature of the evolving human.

So in fact your view of the source of human intelligence is contrary to science.

No, as described above. Science is simply neutral as to what is Divinely Created, and not in conflict nor contrary with what the Bahai Faith teaches is Divinely Created or determined.by God as attributes of human nature.

Sorry for errors in the post. Corrected.

[seer]

No, as described above. Science is simply neutral as to what is Divinely Created, and not in conflict nor contrary with what the Bahai Faith teaches is Divinely Created or determined.by God as attributes of human nature.

No Shuny, science claims more than that. I gave you one link, I could give you a dozen. They claim that human intelligence is the result of physical processes. Period. No need for a non-material soul.

[shunyadragon]

No Shuny, science claims more than that. I gave you one link, I could give you a dozen. They claim that human intelligence is the result of physical processes. Period. No need for a non-material soul.

Not true and your selective out of context references reflect your anti-science and anti-Baha'i beliefs, based on an ancient tribal agenda and scripture. It is a fundamental fact of science and Methodological Naturalism science CANNOT make any determinations concerning religious claims one way or another beyond the objective physical evidence of natural causes, and makes no judgment concerning claims of supernatural causes.