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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Is time physical?

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  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Although we as humans can't know everything I don't tend to believe that God created a universe that is completely deceptive.
    It's not deceptive. It's anything but. If Mind is fundamental, then our our experience of reality is illusory in nature. "Illusion" in this context does not have the same negative deceptive connotations as it commonly has. It just means that mind is fundamental. There is no ill intent behind the illusion of time. There is still a stable law that governs things.

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  • Sparko
    replied
    Seer, what's the difference in living in a growing block universe that has already grown to it's end (or just past the point where we are now) and living in a regular block universe?

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  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Sparko, did the universe start small and grow to the size we see today? Or did all states of the universe small/large/dead always exist together? Did I start as a baby and grow, or did I always exist as young, middle aged, old and dead?
    Yes

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  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post

    You know I lean a little toward idealism, so I personally don't have a problem with it all being an illusion. That's not an endorsement for B theory. I'm only saying I wouldn't dismiss B on the basis that our experience of time is illusory.
    Although we as humans can't know everything I don't tend to believe that God created a universe that is completely deceptive.

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  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    We don't have to reject anything based on your faulty understanding of the block universe and 4D space-time.
    Sparko, did the universe start small and grow to the size we see today? Or did all states of the universe small/large/dead always exist together? Did I start as a baby and grow, or did I always exist as young, middle aged, old and dead?
    Last edited by seer; 09-16-2022, 07:07 AM.

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  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Because it is an illusion, our experience of flow would be an illusion as Einstein said. Like the fames of a film - if you run a film you have the illusions of movement, but each frame is static.
    You know I lean a little toward idealism, so I personally don't have a problem with it all being an illusion. That's not an endorsement for B theory. I'm only saying I wouldn't dismiss B on the basis that our experience of time is illusory.

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  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    No, each slice of time would be static, no matter the location. If you go back to 1953, you won't find me crawling on the floor. Like on your film, each frame is static. That is not motion. If you run the film you have the illusion of movement. Position or orientation do not equal motion. And that is why you and Stoic logically have to reject Big Bang cosmology - the universe it not start small then expand. That could happen with 'growing block theory', but not with block theory.
    We don't have to reject anything based on your faulty understanding of the block universe and 4D space-time.

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  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    Motion is a change in position or orientation of an object over a period time. This happens in the block universe. Therefore there is motion in the block universe.
    No, each slice of time would be static, no matter the location. If you go back to 1953, you won't find me crawling on the floor. Like on your film, each frame is static. That is not motion. If you run the film you have the illusion of movement. Position or orientation do not equal motion. And that is why you and Stoic logically have to reject Big Bang cosmology - the universe it not start small then expand. That could happen with 'growing block theory', but not with block theory.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Actually no, it would not be doing anything. Just a static whatever. In a tenseless universe where time is static motion is static since motion requires time flow.
    Motion is a change in position or orientation of an object over a period time. This happens in the block universe. Therefore there is motion in the block universe.

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  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post
    Somewhere in the Block, the Big Bang is still Bangin.
    Actually no, it would not be doing anything. Just a static whatever. In a tenseless universe where time is static motion is static since motion requires time flow.

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  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post

    Well, when these static slices are executed together in sequence is when movement is created. I know you have said then that that would be an illusion. But i'm not so sure why you say this. It would definitely be a very useful illusion.
    Because it is an illusion, our experience of flow would be an illusion as Einstein said. Like the fames of a film - if you run a film you have the illusions of movement, but each frame is static.

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  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    The only thing I would say is that in B Theory it would not matter whether we could view it from the outside or not.
    That was my point, or rather, my concept that I was throwing out there. It seems that if one were to transcend our spacetime dimension, they wouldn't really be outside the block. Rather, they would move further into it in every possible sense. Consciousness would become diffuse throughout. So it would be the movement of that consciousness that would be creating the movement.

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  • Machinist
    replied
    Somewhere in the Block, the Big Bang is still Bangin.

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  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    The only thing I would say is that in B Theory it would not matter whether we could view it from the outside or not. In a tenseless universe motion can not exist, motion requires the flow of time. That is one reason why Stoic won't answer my question about the Big bang.
    Well, when these static slices are executed together in sequence is when movement is created. I know you have said then that that would be an illusion. But i'm not so sure why you say this. It would definitely be a very useful illusion.

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  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    No. Better if you just reread all of my posts in this thread. And stoic's. He answered your questions too. It was pointless because you just ignore anything we said and repeated your incorrect ideas.
    No, Stoic did not answer all my questions, look at the recent big bang question. And that goes to the core of my point. There is no movement in a block universe. Despite our illusions. In stead of wading through 400+ posts Sparko, just tell me what do you disagree with?
    Last edited by seer; 09-15-2022, 07:52 AM.

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