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Cogito ergo sum

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Is time physical?

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  • Machinist
    replied
    Well my thoughts, if I may....I think perhaps that people are wired to either A or B.

    If anyone is interested, this could be a good intersection of the philosophy of time and the psychology of time:

    https://www.amazon.com/Felt-Time-Psy...erience%20time.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    Sigh.
    My thoughts exactly...

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    No, you are again assuming that you can distinguish different times when time is one thing - static. There is no difference in time for baby seer and old seer. One did not exist BEFORE the other, one did not exist AFTER the other.
    Sigh.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    Of course it has to do with TIME. That is what we are discussing!!! The nature of TIME. Different time periods are different locations in the dimension of TIME. But they are still time.
    No, you are again assuming that you can distinguish different times when time is one thing - static. There is no difference in time for baby seer and old seer. One did not exist BEFORE the other, one did not exist AFTER the other.
    Last edited by seer; 11-02-2022, 12:11 PM.

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  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Well no, that does not follow. Baby seer could well be in a location in the Block universe that is inaccessible to us, but has nothing to do with time. Or the more rational assumption - baby seer no longer exists - anywhere.
    Of course it has to do with TIME. That is what we are discussing!!! The nature of TIME. Different time periods are different locations in the dimension of TIME. But they are still time.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    If all time was "static" the way you think, and all existed once, then we should be able to see everything that ever happened or will happen. You should see baby seer and dead seer. You think there are no other times in B-theory so it should be obvious that B-theory is false right? Why haven't any scientists thought of such a simple test? Could it be that because you have the theory wrong? And there are other times in B-theory like I have been saying? That 1950 exists in B-theory as well as 2022 and 4099?
    Well no, that does not follow. Baby seer could well be in a location in the Block universe that is inaccessible to us, but has nothing to do with time. Or the more rational assumption - baby seer no longer exists - anywhere.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Sparko, my objections are not necessarily my own but what I have read over time. And like I said, time is still a deep mystery, we are pretty clueless, and many physicists (as I linked) don't buy into B theory. Are they drooling idiots too? Is mattbballman31?

    https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...57#post1421457
    No, I don't think anyone is a drooling idiot. I think we can't know which is true without more experimentation. Because from our own observation, either or neither could be true. But if your objections were realistic then anyone would be able to tell which is true because it would be obvious. Therefore you must think that anyone who doesn't see it is a drooling idiot. That is what I am saying.

    If all time was "static" the way you think, and all existed once, then we should be able to see everything that ever happened or will happen. You should see baby seer and dead seer. You think there are no other times in B-theory so it should be obvious that B-theory is false right? Why haven't any scientists thought of such a simple test? Could it be that because you have the theory wrong? And there are other times in B-theory like I have been saying? That 1950 exists in B-theory as well as 2022 and 4099?
    Last edited by Sparko; 11-01-2022, 03:54 PM.

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  • seer
    replied
    [QUOTE=Sparko;n1425248]
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Sigh. I am done trying to explain the same exact thing to you for the umpteenth time Seer. It is completely pointless.

    You. Are. Wrong. You don't understand either theory apparently. In your strange head you think you are the only person who knows "the truth™" about time and your "proof" that B-theory is false is so obvious that anyone should be able to see it, but only YOU can see it and all of the scientific minds that believe in B-theory are drooling idiots who can't see the end of their noses. Right. You go with that. Live in your Dunning Kruger delusion.

    Sparko, my objections are not necessarily my own but what I have read over time, including from William Lane Craig.

    https://reasonandscience.catsboard.c...%20tenselessly.



    And like I said, time is still a deep mystery, we are pretty clueless, and many physicists (as I linked) don't buy into B theory. Are they drooling idiots too? Is mattbballman31?

    https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...57#post1421457
    Last edited by seer; 11-01-2022, 03:49 PM.

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  • Sparko
    replied
    [QUOTE=seer;n1425245]
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post



    Good grief, that is what you and Stoic did through this entire thread!



    Err no. You are again smuggling A theory calculations. If we stand outside your Block universe all your frames exist at one moment - we see them together. You don't know which came first or second nor can you because time is static. And again there is NO 1950 or 1980 in B theory because time does not flow or change. That is why the pond model works because the water does not change from location to location. Look at it this way in B theory all the frames always existed, there was never a first frame when the last frame wasn't existing with it. How do you assign a time9s0 to frames that have always existed side by side?
    Sigh. I am done trying to explain the same exact thing to you for the umpteenth time Seer. It is completely pointless.

    You. Are. Wrong. You don't understand either theory apparently. In your strange head you think you are the only person who knows "the truth™" about time and your "proof" that B-theory is false is so obvious that anyone should be able to see it, but only YOU can see it and all of the scientific minds that believe in B-theory are drooling idiots who can't see the end of their noses. Right. You go with that. Live in your Dunning Kruger delusion.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    Now you are playing semantics with analogies.
    Good grief, that is what you and Stoic did through this entire thread!

    Time isn't a pond - a pond has three dimensions. Time has only one dimension. Time is more like a film strip or video. There are different locations (frames) in the film that are different times in the video. The opening credits are a different location/time than the closing credits, but it is all the same film. 1950 is a different location/time than 1980, but it is all the same dimension that we call "time" - we are obviously using "time" in two different ways. "Time" is the name of the dimension we are discussing and "time" can also refer to a specific era or year in that time dimension. You seem to be purposefully confusing the two in order to claim you are correct and instead it just makes you look ignorant.
    Err no. You are again smuggling A theory calculations. If we stand outside your Block universe all your frames exist at one moment - we see them together. You don't know which came first or second nor can you because time is static. And again there is NO 1950 or 1980 in B theory because time does not flow or change. That is why the pond model works because the water does not change from location to location. Look at it this way in B theory all the frames always existed, there was never a first frame when the last frame wasn't existing with it. How do you assign a times to frames that have always existed side by side?
    Last edited by seer; 11-01-2022, 02:30 PM.

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  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    So there are different water(s) in my time pond? Or just different locations within that pond?
    Now you are playing semantics with analogies.

    Time isn't a pond - a pond has three dimensions. Time has only one dimension. Time is more like a film strip or video. There are different locations (frames) in the film that are different times in the video. The opening credits are a different location/time than the closing credits, but it is all the same film. 1950 is a different location/time than 1980, but it is all the same dimension that we call "time" - we are obviously using "time" in two different ways. "Time" is the name of the dimension we are discussing and "time" can also refer to a specific era or year in that time dimension. You seem to be purposefully confusing the two in order to claim you are correct and instead it just makes you look ignorant.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    Seer someone "outside" can see more of time than we can. Just like you can see more space than some ant at your feet. That doesn't mean that other locations in space are all the same. Time exists. different times are different locations. We can only see our local time. We can't see the past or the future just like the ant can't see the horizon or another galaxy. So yes, different times do exist and you can't see baby seer because baby seer doesn't exist in this time.
    So there are different water(s) in my time pond? Or just different locations within that pond?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Goodness Sparko, that was not the point in quantum mechanics, it was that time can not go backwards, time is irreversible unlike in B theory. And with QM the future is indeterministic; the future is open. Unlike in Block theory.

    https://www.quantamagazine.org/does-...math-20200407/



    Of course it does, there is only ONE time. BECAUSE TIME IS STATIC.



    There are different locations in space-time but not different spaces and times. Again, my pond example, where time is the water. You would find old and baby seer in different locations of the pond but it is the exact same water all the way through. There are not different waters.
    Seer someone "outside" can see more of time than we can. Just like you can see more space than some ant at your feet. That doesn't mean that other locations in space are all the same. Time exists. different times are different locations. We can only see our local time. We can't see the past or the future just like the ant can't see the horizon or another galaxy. So yes, different times do exist and you can't see baby seer because baby seer doesn't exist in this time.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    You don't understand quantum mechanics either Seer. That was obvious from your using that last article that referred to "space-TIME" in regards to quantum mechanics.
    Goodness Sparko, that was not the point in quantum mechanics, it was that time can not go backwards, time is irreversible unlike in B theory. And with QM the future is indeterministic; the future is open. Unlike in Block theory.

    https://www.quantamagazine.org/does-...math-20200407/

    Different locations in time are different times, Seer. We have been over that ad nauseum also. Just because some hypothetical outside observer would see all of time at once does not mean that everything exists "at the same time."
    Of course it does, there is only ONE time. BECAUSE TIME IS STATIC.

    Baby Seer exists in the past, crazy Seer exists right now in 2022, and dead Seer exists hopefully far in the future. All in their own times. They exist in different locations in Space and in Time. Because space and time are parts of the same thing: Space-time.
    There are different locations in space-time but not different spaces and times. Again, my pond example, where time is the water. You would find old and baby seer in different locations of the pond but it is the exact same water all the way through. There are not different waters.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    But I do understand that B Theory is a theory, and really unprovable, and inconsistent with Quantum Mechanics. And yes everything does exist at one time - you already admitted that if we viewed the Block universe from the outside. Because in reality there is only one time and it is static, it does not flow or move or change. Nor can it. And many scientists in the field do not believe in Block theory (see my past links). Especially Quantum theorists. And I have granted that baby seer would exist in a different location of space than old seer, but not a different time because time does not CHANGE because it is STATIC.
    You don't understand quantum mechanics either Seer. That was obvious from your using that last article that referred to "space-TIME" in regards to quantum mechanics.

    Different locations in time are different times, Seer. We have been over that ad nauseum also. Just because some hypothetical outside observer would see all of time at once does not mean that everything exists "at the same time."

    Baby Seer exists in the past, crazy Seer exists right now in 2022, and dead Seer exists hopefully far in the future. All in their own times. They exist in different locations in Space and in Time. Because space and time are parts of the same thing: Space-time.

    Leave a comment:

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