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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Is time physical?

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    1969 exists in 1969. duh.
    But 1969 still exists in THIS physical universe. So where?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    • #92
      Originally posted by seer View Post

      But 1969 still exists in THIS physical universe. So where?
      In 1969.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by seer View Post

        That is the point, your ruler is objectively verifiable, unlike your layers. The idea of the past and future existing in the same universe as the present is a theory that can not be objectively verified. It is a theory based on our limited understanding of time.
        We have done many experiments that prove that space and time are indeed one substance and that time changes for an observer depending on how fast they are going. And scientists have sent a qubit back in time: https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/p...-back-in-time/


        And you are looking back in time every time you look at the sky. The sun you see is 8 minutes in the past. The stars are years in the past.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

          We have done many experiments that prove that space and time are indeed one substance and that time changes for an observer depending on how fast they are going.
          That would be equally true with the A theory of time.

          And scientists have sent a qubit back in time: https://cosmosmagazine.com/science/p...-back-in-time/
          Your link was not there. But this is a quote from the study:

          “It remains to be seen,” the team wrote in their paper posted online in February, “whether the irreversibility of time is a fundamental law of nature or whether, on the contrary, it might be circumvented.”

          https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/08/s...sics-time.html

          So there is no actual evidence that one can travel back in time.

          And you are looking back in time every time you look at the sky. The sun you see is 8 minutes in the past. The stars are years in the past.
          Sure because of distance the star I'm looking at could have been dead years ago. But it is dead, it is not still burning somewhere in this universe. If B theory is correct, the Big bang along with the universal heat death are both present features of the universe.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by seer View Post

            That would be equally true with the A theory of time.
            No because according to the a theory time passes the same for everyone. Yet Einstein showed that if you are going close to the speed of light, time would pass very slowly for you compared to someone here on Earth.


            Your link was not there. But this is a quote from the study:

            “It remains to be seen,” the team wrote in their paper posted online in February, “whether the irreversibility of time is a fundamental law of nature or whether, on the contrary, it might be circumvented.”

            https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/08/s...sics-time.html

            So there is no actual evidence that one can travel back in time.



            Sure because of distance the star I'm looking at could have been dead years ago. But it is dead, it is not still burning somewhere in this universe. If B theory is correct, the Big bang along with the universal heat death are both present features of the universe.
            You can't prove that the A theory of time is true either, Seer. So where does that leave us? There is more evidence for the B theory than the A.
            Last edited by Sparko; 08-15-2022, 01:48 PM.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              No because according to the a theory time passes the same for everyone. Yet Einstein showed that if you are going close to the speed of light, time would pass very slowly for you compared to someone here on Earth.
              No, A theory does not say that, it only says that time flows. It could flow faster or slower depending... But neither the past or future exist. Only the present.

              You can't prove that the A theory of time is true either, Seer. So where does that leave us? There is more evidence for the B theory than the A.
              No, experience shows A theory to be more plausible. If B theory is correct the Universe is both one second after the hot big bang and in heat death. Both these contrary condition are features of the universe we live in.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by seer View Post

                No, A theory does not say that, it only says that time flows. It could flow faster or slower depending... But neither the past or future exist. Only the present.



                No, experience shows A theory to be more plausible. If B theory is correct the Universe is both one second after the hot big bang and in heat death. Both these contrary condition are features of the universe we live in.
                Your problem is you keep trying to say Time doesn't exist or exists all at the same time, both are nonsense statements. Time exists in B theory. each moment in time is it's own place in the universe, just like every point in space is. Just because multiple points in space exist doesn't mean everything is in the same spot. So multiple time points don't exist at the same spot or time. They each exist at their own time. If you had a time machine you could visit each point and then you would BE in that time. You would no longer be in 2022.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Time exists in B theory. each moment in time is it's own place in the universe...

                  .
                  Which universe? The one just beginning in the hot big bang? The one that suffered heat death, the one I see around me?

                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    What are you smoking, dude?
                    Whatever Kant was smoking.

                    Sorry for the interruption. The thread went quiet there for a bit.

                    Just reading through some relevant material this morning, and thought his might help other readers follow along better:


                    "One way of capturing the distinction between the A-theory and the B-theory is to ask, what would temporal reality be like if sentient beings had never evolved? According to the A-theory, if there were no observers there would still be an objective distinction between past, present and future. One moment in the entire temporal history of the universe would be the present moment, and which moment that was would be constantly changing. According to the B-theory, if there were no observers there would be no present moment."

                    https://www.rep.routledge.com/articl...d-the-b-theory

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post

                      Which universe? The one just beginning in the hot big bang? The one that suffered heat death, the one I see around me?
                      Again, it's all the same universe. Your question is like me saying "Which universe? The solar system? The Andromeda galaxy?"

                      Comment


                      • Seer, if the A-theory of time is correct and there is no future, then how does God know the future actions of free will agents like people? The only way he could know the future is if there is no free will and he made people do what he wanted. Then he knows the future because he makes the future happen the way he wants down to every thought and action of every person.

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                        • If time is physical can it be kept in a bottle like the old Jim Croce song wanted?

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            If time is physical can it be kept in a bottle like the old Jim Croce song wanted?
                            Duh.




                            chechen-smooth_78c88309-69a9-4a25-9147-56b269060d39_grande.jpg?v=1483812145.jpg

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                              Again, it's all the same universe. Your question is like me saying "Which universe? The solar system? The Andromeda galaxy?"
                              The condition of universe is simultaneously:

                              a. As we see it today.

                              b. At the start of the big bang.

                              c. In heat death.

                              How can all these states exist together?
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post

                                The condition of universe is simultaneously:

                                a. As we see it today.

                                b. At the start of the big bang.

                                c. In heat death.

                                How can all these states exist together?

                                Because they exist at separate, distinct times. As I said before, Time is what keeps everything from happening at once. So now answer my question about God and knowledge of the future that you say doesn't exist.

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