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Cogito ergo sum

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Is time physical?

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  • #61
    The only way I have ever been able to make any sense at all of time being a 4th dimension, is to think of it loosely like an axis. In addition to x y and z, there is a time axis.

    If I have a jar sitting on the table, then it is situated in space at certain coordinates, relative to some origin of course. How long it's been sitting there, would be the time axis.

    If you take a 2d circle, and extrude it parallel to any axis, you'll get a cylinder. So in a way, the jar's existence is being extruded through time. This analogy breaks down though when you consider that I might move the jar, or the jar could fall to the floor and shatter into a thousand pieces. It would be really weird, this extrusion, because things move about and they change over time. The only thing I have ever seen is a 3d block extruded into the 4th dimension, but from a 3D perspective (because that's what we're limited to):

    Dimension_levels.jpg

    I guess the metaphor of "axis" and "dimension" can really throw you off in attempting to grasp this idea. I'm not really sure if it's either. There is a possibility I believe, that the universe could be weirder and stranger than we can possibly imagine.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post

      Yes, but not at the same TIME. All moments exist eternally, but not at the same TIME. If you think of the universe like a layer cake, each layer is a different time. From the outside the entire universe exists, all space and all time, to that observer, but each event and object exists embedded in specific layers of time. Everything does not exist at the same TIME but exist eternally. There is no time outside of the universe.
      What do you mean not at the same time? In a block universe time is static, it does not flow. Time is the same yesterday as it is tomorrow, it does not move or change. There is no distinction, nor can there be - static is static...

      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

        The really weird thing is that when you add in distance and motion, what time slice of the universe you consider "now" can change. You might think that looking at some stars at night that they are in your "now" but the stars light took thousands of years to reach you so the "now" you are seeing from those stars are thousands of years in the star's past. Same if someone on those stars were looking at us. If they had a strong enough telescope they might see the Roman empire on Earth as their "now".
        Yes, but the Roman empire still exists in the block universe. It is only our limited view that doesn't grasp that fact.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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        • #64
          Originally posted by seer View Post

          What do you mean not at the same time? In a block universe time is static, it does not flow. Time is the same yesterday as it is tomorrow, it does not move or change. There is no distinction, nor can there be - static is static...
          As I said, TIME is a coordinate (or layer in my example) so each "slice" is a different time. So to say it all is at the same time is nonsense. They all have their own time slice. slice 1969 - men land on the moon, slice 2022 Seer starts this thread. I challenge you to look around and find events from 1969 floating around in 2022. You won't because they are in 1969. Each event exists in it's own time. Just like each object exists in it's own spacial location.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by seer View Post

            Yes, but the Roman empire still exists in the block universe. It is only our limited view that doesn't grasp that fact.
            so? There are stars so far away in space that still exist that you can't see because of your limited view.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

              As I said, TIME is a coordinate (or layer in my example) so each "slice" is a different time. So to say it all is at the same time is nonsense. They all have their own time slice. slice 1969 - men land on the moon, slice 2022 Seer starts this thread. I challenge you to look around and find events from 1969 floating around in 2022. You won't because they are in 1969. Each event exists in it's own time. Just like each object exists in it's own spacial location.
              What layers? There are no layers. Where are these slices? That only makes sense if time flows, I mean actually flows. And if block theory is correct 1969 still exists in THIS universe.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by seer View Post

                What layers? There are no layers. Where are these slices? That only makes sense if time flows, I mean actually flows. And if block theory is correct 1969 still exist in THIS universe.
                it was an analogy of the block universe. I even gave you a video. At this point I think you are just playing dumb, seer.

                If you have a plane, then each point on the plane is a coordinate in space (x,y). If you ignore the third dimension for a moment, and imagine that the height dimension was time instead, then if you have a block, the vertical dimension would be the time coordinate. If you sliced it up, then each slice would be a different time in which various objects existed at specific x,y coordinates.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                  it was an analogy of the block universe. I even gave you a video. At this point I think you are just playing dumb, seer.
                  I watched the video, it is a ridiculous analogy.

                  If you have a plane, then each point on the plane is a coordinate in space (x,y). If you ignore the third dimension for a moment, and imagine that the height dimension was time instead, then if you have a block, the vertical dimension would be the time coordinate. If you sliced it up, then each slice would be a different time in which various objects existed at specific x,y coordinates.
                  Where do these slices of time actually exist in the universe? Not in theory but actually?

                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by seer View Post

                    I watched the video, it is a ridiculous analogy.



                    Where do these slices of time actually exist in the universe? Not in theory but actually?
                    They don't. Time is a continuum just like space. If I show you a ruler would you demand "where do those lines exist in the universe?" and claim space doesn't exist?

                    In the analogy, the slices are moments in time. just like the lines on a ruler measure off distance.

                    timeruler.jpg

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                      They don't. Time is a continuum just like space. If I show you a ruler would you demand "where do those lines exist in the universe?" and claim space doesn't exist?

                      In the analogy, the slices are moments in time. just like the lines on a ruler measure off distance.

                      timeruler.jpg
                      What do you mean they don't exist? In block theory all events past present and future exist. Each line in your ruler exists, the 12am, the 12 pm. The past is as real as the present.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by seer View Post





                        Where do these slices of time actually exist in the universe? Not in theory but actually?
                        Where does 1969 exist? If past, present and future exist now, then where in the universe are they?

                        Are you implying that everything is happening simultaneously?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                          They don't. Time is a continuum just like space. If I show you a ruler would you demand "where do those lines exist in the universe?" and claim space doesn't exist?

                          Kant didn't think space exists:


                          "Space is not something objective and real, nor a substance, nor an accident, nor a relation; instead, it is subjective and ideal, and originates from the mind’s nature in accord with a stable law as a scheme, as it were, for coordinating everything sensed externally". (Ak 2: 403)



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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by seer View Post

                            What do you mean they don't exist? In block theory all events past present and future exist. Each line in your ruler exists, the 12am, the 12 pm. The past is as real as the present.
                            You were asking for me to show you the layers in my analogy

                            Are you just playing dumb? Or is it for real?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                              Where does 1969 exist? If past, present and future exist now, then where in the universe are they?

                              Are you implying that everything is happening simultaneously?
                              1969 exists in 1969. duh.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                                Kant didn't think space exists:


                                "Space is not something objective and real, nor a substance, nor an accident, nor a relation; instead, it is subjective and ideal, and originates from the mind’s nature in accord with a stable law as a scheme, as it were, for coordinating everything sensed externally". (Ak 2: 403)


                                Who cares what a philosopher thinks?

                                Comment

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