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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Is time physical?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Right, but there still is no actual flow of time, no actual duration, no actual direction. It all exists simultaneously, our experience of flow is an illusion. So in the big picture if time is not about flow or direction then what is it?
    It is what separates events in the universe. Otherwise everything would happen at the same time. Just like space separates objects so that everything doesn't exist at the same location. Duration is what our minds experience. It is a subjective experience.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post

      It is what separates events in the universe. Otherwise everything would happen at the same time. Just like space separates objects so that everything doesn't exist at the same location. Duration is what our minds experience. It is a subjective experience.
      But everything actually does happen at the same time, past, present and future all exist now. Me writing to you now is just as present as last Tuesday's cup of coffee. Our experience of duration is an illusion. So again what is time, if flow and duration don't actually define time what does?
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Stoic View Post

        Both events would only exist simultaneously from the POV of someone outside of time (who would presumably need some different sort of time in order to be able to do anything). From that POV, space-time would be an unchanging block of four dimensions (the three spatial dimensions and time). But time would still be there, or they wouldn't be able to distinguish between the two events.
        That makes no sense. What do you mean that time is there? In this picture time is still static and if time is not defined by flow or duration what exactly does define time?
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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        • #49
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          That makes no sense. What do you mean that time is there? In this picture time is still static and if time is not defined by flow or duration what exactly does define time?
          It might be easiest to explain if we throw out one dimension. Imagine a one foot square that has an ant walking around on it for an hour. We can graph the ant's path through space-time as a rectangular prism, with size one foot by one foot by one hour. When we look at the 3-dimensional graph, we can see the ant's location in space-time over the entire hour, all at once. The ant's path is static from this point of view, but that doesn't mean that the ant is in all locations at once. Time still exists, as one of the dimensions on the graph.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Stoic View Post

            It might be easiest to explain if we throw out one dimension. Imagine a one foot square that has an ant walking around on it for an hour. We can graph the ant's path through space-time as a rectangular prism, with size one foot by one foot by one hour. When we look at the 3-dimensional graph, we can see the ant's location in space-time over the entire hour, all at once. The ant's path is static from this point of view, but that doesn't mean that the ant is in all locations at once. Time still exists, as one of the dimensions on the graph.
            Well of course the ant is in all locations at once. I'm talking to you now, I am also in my kitchen having coffee last Tuesday morning, now. Our subjective, wrong, view of flow doesn't change that. Except acting as illusion I don't see what time is.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by seer View Post

              But everything actually does happen at the same time, past, present and future all exist now. Me writing to you now is just as present as last Tuesday's cup of coffee. Our experience of duration is an illusion. So again what is time, if flow and duration don't actually define time what does?
              No they don't. All points in time are REAL and EXIST, but they are definitely NOT at the same TIME. They each have their own time. Saying all time exists at the same time doesn't even make sense as a sentence.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                No they don't. All points in time are REAL and EXIST, but they are definitely NOT at the same TIME. They each have their own time. Saying all time exists at the same time doesn't even make sense as a sentence.
                If all these events exist simultaneously then what does it mean to say they have a different time? What exactly is different, in time, from yesterday and today? Has time changed? How so?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by seer View Post

                  If all these events exist simultaneously then what does it mean to say they have a different time? What exactly is different, in time, from yesterday and today? Has time changed? How so?
                  They don't exist simultaneously. What happened in 1854 happened in 1854, not 2022.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    They don't exist simultaneously. What happened in 1854 happened in 1854, not 2022.
                    Are you saying they all don't presently exist in the universe?
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by seer View Post

                      Are you saying they all don't presently exist in the universe?
                      They all exist in their own time coordinate. Just like things exist at different locations in space. You keep using words like "at the same time" and "presently" which make no sense. Something can exist of course at both points in the past and presently. Like say, a castle built in 1700 could still exist today but it would have changed over that time, as it decayed, was remodeled, etc.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by seer View Post

                        Well of course the ant is in all locations at once. I'm talking to you now, I am also in my kitchen having coffee last Tuesday morning, now. Our subjective, wrong, view of flow doesn't change that. Except acting as illusion I don't see what time is.
                        Saying that all past and future events are real, is not the same as saying they all exist now.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                          They don't exist simultaneously. What happened in 1854 happened in 1854, not 2022.
                          What happened in 1854 still exists in the universe, as we speak. There is no past, present or future in block theory.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                            Saying that all past and future events are real, is not the same as saying they all exist now.
                            It does with block theory.

                            Time Is An Illusion – Past, Present & Future Exist Simultaneously, According To The Block Universe Theory

                            According to many physicists, time does not occur the way that we imagine it does. They believe the time is merely an illusion, and that the past, present, and future are all still occurring in different locations in space time.

                            In an article written by Dr. Kristie Miller in ABC Science, she goes in-depth about the theory. According to her, all of the moments that have ever existed and will ever exist are currently running on a continuum that makes them relative to each other within three spatial dimensions and a single time dimension.

                            The block theory is also associated with the theory of Eternalism, which shows that the past, present, and future all co-exist. Presentism, on the other hand, believes only the present moment exists. But without time being an issue, it would be impossible for that to be true.


                            https://empathsandintroverts.com/tim...iverse-theory/
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by seer View Post

                              What happened in 1854 still exists in the universe, as we speak. There is no past, present or future in block theory.
                              Yes, but not at the same TIME. All moments exist eternally, but not at the same TIME. If you think of the universe like a layer cake, each layer is a different time. From the outside the entire universe exists, all space and all time, to that observer, but each event and object exists embedded in specific layers of time. Everything does not exist at the same TIME but exist eternally. There is no time outside of the universe.

                              The really weird thing is that when you add in distance and motion, what time slice of the universe you consider "now" can change. You might think that looking at some stars at night that they are in your "now" but the stars light took thousands of years to reach you so the "now" you are seeing from those stars are thousands of years in the star's past. Same if someone on those stars were looking at us. If they had a strong enough telescope they might see the Roman empire on Earth as their "now".


                              Here is a video that goes through a pretty good explanation of the block universe and space time.






                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by seer View Post

                                It does with block theory.

                                Time Is An Illusion – Past, Present & Future Exist Simultaneously, According To The Block Universe Theory

                                According to many physicists, time does not occur the way that we imagine it does. They believe the time is merely an illusion, and that the past, present, and future are all still occurring in different locations in space time.

                                In an article written by Dr. Kristie Miller in ABC Science, she goes in-depth about the theory. According to her, all of the moments that have ever existed and will ever exist are currently running on a continuum that makes them relative to each other within three spatial dimensions and a single time dimension.

                                The block theory is also associated with the theory of Eternalism, which shows that the past, present, and future all co-exist. Presentism, on the other hand, believes only the present moment exists. But without time being an issue, it would be impossible for that to be true.


                                https://empathsandintroverts.com/tim...iverse-theory/
                                The article that your source is referencing never uses the word "simultaneously", nor does it say that physicists believe that "time is merely an illusion."

                                Keep in mind that "different locations in space-time" means at different places or times. If time didn't exist, it would simply be at different places.

                                The English language makes it a little difficult to discuss this subject, because it isn't set up to discuss the Block Universe from the POV of someone outside of the Block Universe. So a lot of the popular presentations of the theory make the same mistakes as your source.

                                Comment

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