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Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Is time physical?
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
You also have said that time itself is an illusion.
Time Is An Illusion – Past, Present & Future Exist Simultaneously, According To The Block Universe Theory
According to many physicists, time does not occur the way that we imagine it does. They believe the time is merely an illusion, and that the past, present, and future are all still occurring in different locations in space time.
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View Post
Yes, that first quote was a question, the second was a linked reference:
When it says that time is an illusion it is obviously referring to flow. And Sparko I have have make the distinction a number of times in this thread between the flow of time and static time. You KNOW that...
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
It's your source and you have used it a few times now and you keep claiming there is no past present or future in B-theory. And you keep claiming things like everything exists "at the same time" - I have spent a large portion of time in this thread correcting your misconceptions about B-theory.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View Post
No, past present and future all exist together in the Block universe. Baby me still exists, not in the past, but exists as we speak in the Block universe. If we were outside of the universe we would see them all at the same time, just as we would see every frame of your film at the same moment, if it was stretched out before us...
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
Baby seer exists in the past as far as we are concerned at this time. The past exists.
The future exists, but NOT AT THE SAME TIME. Because Time itself exists as a continuum from zero (big bang) to whatever the end is. Yes if you were a 4 dimensional being looking at the universe from outside somehow you would see all of time. Just like if you were a bird flying over a highway you could see all of the highway from beginning to end. But the highway still has actual locations and objects along the way from the beginning to the end.
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Machinist View Post
I understand. Rationality, by the most irreducible definition possible, necessarily requires a logically reducible real-ness as a starting point. Even though B might work in theory, it can only be reduced to something illusory. I would like to see how Sparko and Stoic would answer this. Do you call it illusion? If not, then what do you call the perceived motion that is created by the succession of these time slices?
It's kind of like one of those drawings where you see one object, and then if you look at it long enough (or at a different time), you see a different object. And then you can switch back and forth between one view and the other, but you can't really say that one view is wrong and the other is correct. Similarly, you can think of time as being like A theory if that's convenient, or you can switch to B theory if you prefer. It turns out that a lot of physicists prefer the B theory view.
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Originally posted by Stoic View Post
The equations of motion work exactly the same in B theory as in A theory. What changes is the interpretation of those equations.
Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostHow do they work 'exactly' the same when there is no motion in B theory?
1) B theory is obviously wrong, and lots of physicists are colossal idiots, or
2) There is motion in B theory, and seer's claim to the contrary is just wrong.
I suspect that you and I would lean in different directions as to which of the above is correct.
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Originally posted by Stoic View Post
It's pretty obvious that there is motion, so I see two possibilities here:
1) B theory is obviously wrong, and lots of physicists are colossal idiots, or
2) There is motion in B theory, and seer's claim to the contrary is just wrong.
I suspect that you and I would lean in different directions as to which of the above is correct.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View Post
If there is motion Stoic, then the A theory of time kicks in, flow is related to motion. So I will ask you again - did the universe begin small then expand as we see it today? There is no temporal passage or 'becoming' (motion) in B theory.
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Originally posted by Stoic View Post
I don't see a significant difference between "the universe began small and then expanded" and "the spatial extent of the universe is smaller at earlier times than at later times".Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostBecause the first one created the kinetic energy necessary for universal motion, set everything in motion. The second one does no such thing. Again in static cosmos there is no motion.
The Block Universe has all the same laws of physics as other theories of time. If it didn't, physicists would reject it, rather than embrace it.
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Originally posted by Stoic View PostYou can keep saying that forever (and I expect you will), but you will still be wrong.
The Block Universe has all the same laws of physics as other theories of time. If it didn't, physicists would reject it, rather than embrace it.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostFirst, not all physicists do accept B theory. Second, you are clearly wrong. Most physicists, I suspect, would accept Big bang cosmology, that the universe started small then expanded to the size we see today. The very thing you and other B theorists would deny. The only way around that would be the growing block theory. Where A theory is reintroduced.
(And BTW, I've never claimed to be a B theorist.)
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