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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Is time physical?

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  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Again, there is no ACTUAL evidence, it is a theory with no observable evidence. And I have more faith in God's foreknowledge (prognōsis) and ability than you I guess. And B Theory is nowhere a certainty - nowhere near to the ability of refuting our experience of change. There is no good reason to see our experience as an illusion...
    You don't even understand B-theory, much less the evidence for it. You've shown that throughout this thread. The first thing you need to do in order to refute a theory is understand it correctly. You don't. B-theory might in fact not be true. But you sure haven't shown that nor even come close. All you have done is waste my time with nonsense objections and refusing to grasp anything I have said. The B-theory you seem to have stuck in your noggin isn't the actual B-theory. It's some Seer-imagined mockery of it.

    So I guess I am done here. When you can show you actually understand B-theory, then maybe we can have an actual discussion. Until then it is pointless.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    I would say the fact that God knows the future is evidence of it. If the future doesn't exist, then God can't know it.

    Also, Einstein's equations hold up which also supports the block universe. That's evidence.

    What you want is more than evidence. You want proof.
    Again, there is no ACTUAL evidence, it is a theory with no observable evidence. And I have more faith in God's foreknowledge (prognōsis) and ability than you I guess. And B Theory is nowhere a certainty - nowhere near to the ability of refuting our experience of change. There is no good reason to see our experience as an illusion...

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    Time is relative too. That's the whole point of general relativity. And in the block universe space doesn't really expand does it? It is static in each slice of time just like everything else. It only expands as you look further down the timeline dimension. A time coordinate is just a location along the time dimension. You can use any coordinate system you want. Seconds, Months, Years, planck time, etc, just like you can use any coordinate system you want to pinpoint a location in space, inches, feet, light years, etc. You can tell one moment of time from another because something has changed. If I compare 1 second ago to 2 seconds ago, that is comparing two different time coordinates. If I compare 1 billion years ago to 2 billion years ago, that too is comparing two different time coordinates.
    No the whole point is that the universe is actually expanding. And using Seconds, Months, Years, etc... is using an illusion, in fact a falsehood. None of those actually track with reality in Block theory. And like I said, in B Theory what has actually changed? I haven't grown from a child to an adult. The universe hasn't actually gone from small to large. There is no real change. And there could not be different 'slices' of time, all slices are frozen. The same. It would be like finding a coordinate in an endless empty space.

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  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Except there is no actual evidence.
    I would say the fact that God knows the future is evidence of it. If the future doesn't exist, then God can't know it.

    Also, Einstein's equations hold up which also supports the block universe. That's evidence.

    What you want is more than evidence. You want proof.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    No, space is expanding, it is not static. Even if it isn't, position is relative to other objects. That doesn't work with time. You have yet to explain how one actually distinguishes between time A and time B. Or even what a time coordinate is in static time or an example of one. You are just asserting...
    Time is relative too. That's the whole point of general relativity. And in the block universe space doesn't really expand does it? It is static in each slice of time just like everything else. It only expands as you look further down the timeline dimension. A time coordinate is just a location along the time dimension. You can use any coordinate system you want. Seconds, Months, Years, planck time, etc, just like you can use any coordinate system you want to pinpoint a location in space, inches, feet, light years, etc. You can tell one moment of time from another because something has changed. If I compare 1 second ago to 2 seconds ago, that is comparing two different time coordinates. If I compare 1 billion years ago to 2 billion years ago, that too is comparing two different time coordinates.

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied


    Very insightful article there. This quote captures the vague notion I had:

    "Contrary to our everyday experiences, when interpreting the laws of physics, perhaps the architecture of the human brain imposes a bias towards eternalism. Thinking about time as a dimension in which all moments are equally real, better resonates with the brain’s architecture which readily accepts that all points in space are equally real."

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post

    Yeah, I know. B just has a creative cosmology behind it, and that's probably why it's so attractive to many people.
    Except there is no actual evidence.

    Empirical evidence from physics should always override our intuitions about the world. Yet in the case of the presentism versus eternalism debate there is actually no empirical evidence for eternalism. But there is some empirical evidence for presentism.

    Perhaps one day objective evidence will emerge that we live in an eternalist universe, and we will understand why our subjective experiences are misleading. But until that day, we should accept our experience that the present is objectively different from the past and future as empirical evidence in favor of presentism.

    https://iai.tv/articles/einstein-and...erse-auid-2065

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    The model is what we experience everyday. The past is gone, the future is not yet realized and only the present exists.
    Yeah, I know. B just has a creative cosmology behind it, and that's probably why it's so attractive to many people.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    As I keep saying, in the block universe time is just another dimension like the 3 we see in space, space is just as "static" as time is. So how do you distinguish two different locations in space? They have different coordinates. Same with time, different events have different time coordinates within the time dimension. Something can exist at one coordinate and not in another, just like in space. Flow doesn't matter, just like movement in space doesn't matter to an objects location.
    No, space is expanding, it is not static. Even if it isn't, position is relative to other objects. That doesn't work with time. You have yet to explain how one actually distinguishes between time A and time B. Or even what a time coordinate is in static time or an example of one. You are just asserting...

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    I did not bring up locations in space, I ask how one differentiates between time A and time B when time is static. Without referring to flow which is an illusion. Do you have an answer?
    As I keep saying, in the block universe time is just another dimension like the 3 we see in space, space is just as "static" as time is. So how do you distinguish two different locations in space? They have different coordinates. Same with time, different events have different time coordinates within the time dimension. Something can exist at one coordinate and not in another, just like in space. Flow doesn't matter, just like movement in space doesn't matter to an objects location.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    Entropy level for one. And it's a different location in time than any other location. If all time periods were the same then everything would be happening at once. Again, you sound like a Flat Earther claiming that you would fall off the Earth if it were a sphere.

    How is one location in space different from another Seer?
    I did not bring up locations in space, I ask how one differentiates between time A and time B when time is static. Without referring to flow which is an illusion. Do you have an answer?

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post

    Describe the model for A.
    The model is what we experience everyday. The past is gone, the future is not yet realized and only the present exists.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Then show me how to find a distinct time period when time is static, without using flow? How exactly is time period A different from time period B?
    Entropy level for one. And it's a different location in time than any other location. If all time periods were the same then everything would be happening at once. Again, you sound like a Flat Earther claiming that you would fall off the Earth if it were a sphere.

    How is one location in space different from another Seer?

    Leave a comment:


  • Machinist
    replied
    Originally posted by seer View Post

    Feel free to jump into this B theory debate. I'm the only A theory guy around...
    I'm down with A, it just seems that B at least has a model, the 4D block universe.

    Describe the model for A.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by mattbballman31 View Post

    I'll be back for a little while. At least, until my Shunya migraine returns.
    Feel free to jump into this B theory debate. I'm the only A theory guy around...

    Leave a comment:

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