Is time physical?

[seer]

Entropy does exist from one location to another. That's how someone from the "outside" could tell which direction those of us on the inside experience time. From the "outside" it makes no difference. But we are not on the outside. we are on the inside and our brains experience time as one direction same as in A-theory. From the "outside" all of time is accessible. Direction doesn't matter.

But our view from the inside is false. Again, our sun never experiences entropy and does experience entropy. Somewhere in our universe the sun is both dead and alive. Somewhere in the SAME universe all suns are burning and all suns are dead. Strange, that...

[seer]

Since he's looking at it from outside, he sees them in different locations (even events that happen at the same location in space are at different locations in spacetime).

When you say I still exist as a baby, how is that time different to this time? Can that be explained without using the illusion of flow?

These events are ordered along the time axis, and if the origin is the big bang (for example), then events that you perceive as earlier in time are those that are located closer to the big bang.

Remember in the Block universe there is no earlier or later time. All exists at one static moment, and always has.

First, second, and third, etc., are meaningless in the Block Universe unless you specify that you want to count them in terms of increasing time coordinates.

Right, so all events exist at one moment. With no variation in time. And how do you get to increasing time coordinates when nothing actually increased?

[Sparko]

That does not answer the question and if we look at the Block universe from outside entropy doesn't actually exist, I never grew old. I'm still a baby somewhere.

Entropy does exist from one location to another. That's how someone from the "outside" could tell which direction those of us on the inside experience time. From the "outside" it makes no difference. But we are not on the outside. we are on the inside and our brains experience time as one direction same as in A-theory. From the "outside" all of time is accessible. Direction doesn't matter.

[Stoic]

Of course all events happen in time because time is everywhere.

Different events are located at various times.

How is that time different from another time?

One time can be distinguished from another time by the locations of physical objects. (You don't get a change in time unless some object is in a different position.)

There may be different locations and events but where does time itself change?

Time is different in areas with different gravitation, if that's what you mean.

Like I said to Sparko:

Look at it this way, our stranger comes along and views our block universe. He sees frames of my life, baby, adult, old man. Time wise how are they different? Which came first, second, third, etc...

Since he's looking at it from outside, he sees them in different locations (even events that happen at the same location in space are at different locations in spacetime).

These events are ordered along the time axis, and if the origin is the big bang (for example), then events that you perceive as earlier in time are those that are located closer to the big bang.

First, second, and third, etc., are meaningless in the Block Universe unless you specify that you want to count them in terms of increasing time coordinates.

[seer]

I am done trying to explain it. I already told you about entropy.

That does not answer the question and if we look at the Block universe from outside entropy doesn't actually exist, I never grew old. I'm still a baby somewhere.

[seer]

Seer, in A-theory, why does time flow the direction it does and not the other way?

Entropy.

Entropy is one of the few quantities in the physical sciences that require a particular direction for time, sometimes called an arrow of time. As one goes "forward" in time, the second law of thermodynamics says, the entropy of an isolated system can increase, but not decrease. Thus, entropy measurement is a way of distinguishing the past from the future. In thermodynamic systems that are not isolated, entropy can decrease with time, for example living systems where local entropy is reduced at the expense of an environmental increase (resulting in a net increase in entropy), the formation of typical crystals, the workings of a refrigerator and within living organisms.

[Sparko]

Seer, in A-theory, why does time flow the direction it does and not the other way?

[Sparko]

OK...




Of course all events happen in time because time is everywhere.




How is that time different from another time? There may be different locations and events but where does time itself change?

Like I said to Sparko:

Look at it this way, our stranger comes along and views our block universe. He sees frames of my life, baby, adult, old man. Time wise how are they different? Which came first, second, third, etc...

I am done trying to explain it. I already told you about entropy.

[seer]

Exactly. Time is just as real as space, even without flow.

OK...

Locations in space are determined relative to physical bodies. Locations in time are located relative to events.

Of course all events happen in time because time is everywhere.

I believe I already did: the location of the earth with respect to the sun, moon, other planets, and stars.

A solar eclipse is an event that is located at a particular time, for a given location in space.

How is that time different from another time? There may be different locations and events but where does time itself change?

Like I said to Sparko:

Look at it this way, our stranger comes along and views our block universe. He sees frames of my life, baby, adult, old man. Time wise how are they different? Which came first, second, third, etc...

[Stoic]

Space is not different in different locations, neither is time.

Exactly. Time is just as real as space, even without flow.

That is the point, time does not determine anything. There are no distinct time coordinates. But locations are determined relative to other physical bodies.

Locations in space are determined relative to physical bodies. Locations in time are located relative to events.

Sheesh! What is a time coordinate in a sea of static time?

The same as a space coordinate in a sea of static space.

Where time does not change? Really Stoic, can you offer a time coordinate that does not depend on our false and illusionary idea of flow?

I believe I already did: the location of the earth with respect to the sun, moon, other planets, and stars.

A solar eclipse is an event that is located at a particular time, for a given location in space.

[seer]

Time is the medium, location within that medium is a moment in time. A coordinate. Just like the frozen fish in the block of ice has an x, y, z coordinate in the ice.

But that is the point. Yes there are different coordinates (locations) for the fish in the lake, but the lake (i.e. time) plays no determinative roll in location, and doesn't identify any location.

Look at it this way, our stranger comes along and views our block universe. He sees frames of my life, baby, adult, old man. Time wise how are they different? Which came first, second, third, etc...

[Sparko]

You said:



There are no actual years in B Theory, to speak of 1961 or 2022 is based on our false view of flow. There are not, nor can there be, separate "moments." We would see all these events as existing at one moment or at once as you said. You can not divide that moment. And that means there is no "time line." There is just static time (more like fish in a lake that was flash frozen, instead of a line). You certainly could (possibly) have different locations but not different times. If one came upon the Block universe he would see all events frozen in time how could he possibly assign time periods for different events? He could see different locations, but not different times. They would see a million of iterations of me frozen in place. All of which are eternal and static. I did not go from child to adult to a cranky old man, I am and will remain a child, adult and cranky old man. None came first, none came second or last. They all exist at once, indivisible by time.

Time is the medium, location within that medium is a moment in time. A coordinate. Just like the frozen fish in the block of ice has an x, y, z coordinate in the ice.

[seer]

already did. several times now. Go back and reread all of my posts. Then when you finally understand, come back and we can continue. Until then I am wasting my time arguing in circles with you. Maybe we are in a time loop

You said:

If the time dimension were a line, each time coordinate or period would be a point along that line. You from the outside could see all of the line and all of the points but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

.....1961....1962................2022.......2025.. ......3000

You can see the whole line at once. but each . is a different moment in time.

There are no actual years in B Theory, to speak of 1961 or 2022 is based on our false view of flow. There are not, nor can there be, separate "moments." We would see all these events as existing at one moment or at once as you said. You can not divide that moment. And that means there is no "time line." There is just static time (more like fish in a lake that was flash frozen, instead of a line). You certainly could (possibly) have different locations but not different times. If one came upon the Block universe he would see all events frozen in time how could he possibly assign time periods for different events? He could see different locations, but not different times. They would see a million of iterations of me frozen in place. All of which are eternal and static. I did not go from child to adult to a cranky old man, I am and will remain a child, adult and cranky old man. None came first, none came second or last. They all exist at once, indivisible by time.

[Sparko]

So present a time coordinate, not based on illusion? Just one.

already did. several times now. Go back and reread all of my posts. Then when you finally understand, come back and we can continue. Until then I am wasting my time arguing in circles with you. Maybe we are in a time loop

[seer]

You are wrong. again.

So present a time coordinate, not based on illusion? Just one.