Originally posted by seer
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Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Is time physical?
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Originally posted by Machinist View Post
Entropy. Something is wound up that makes time move in one direction. So it's entropy that makes the film run.
I think that is a good representation of their argument.
Going back to what I was saying earlier, I don't think they have a problem with everything being an illusion (do they?), as long as that illusion is empirically concrete, verifiable, and useful for other sciences and inquiries into the nature of reality. Yeah, it's an illusion of sorts, but quite stable.
I'm still way more comfortable with A though.
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Originally posted by seer View Post
But there is no actual film running, so we are back to a motionless universe. Nothing actually moves, including the chemicals that cause our thoughts. So our belief that we are presently thinking is also an illusion.
I think that is a good representation of their argument.
So our belief that we are presently thinking is also an illusion.
I'm still way more comfortable with A though.
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Originally posted by Machinist View Post
The film strip is the B theorist goto analogy. That's the way it works. Like a film strip. The flow is the perceived flow. I don't think they have a problem with it being an illusion.
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Originally posted by seer View Post
What is running the film in B theory? And you can only actually run that film if A theory is correct - any series of events in motion would require flow.
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Originally posted by Machinist View Post
If B is true, then the motion we experience would be a reality of sorts. The flow is produced by running the film that contains all these static frames. I wonder if B theorists accept the term "illusion" here? Because it is a central fact, within that worldview of time, that motion is produced by the succession of these frames or slices. I wonder what they call it, if not an illusion?
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
Psalm 139:16 ESV
Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.
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Originally posted by seer View PostOK, back to my recent point. How is motion (whether in the thought process or physical acts) possible in a universe where time is static? It seems to me that motion requires a flow of time.
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OK, back to my recent point. How is motion (whether in the thought process or physical acts) possible in a universe where time is static? It seems to me that motion requires a flow of time.
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Originally posted by Machinist View PostSeer mentioned before you even became self aware...before we are even conceived, everything is already written in the block universe.
That makes it a little questionable now. A person can not exist because they haven't been born yet, nor will they for thousands of years, and in the same block, they have been dead for thousands of years.
It's troubling to think that people who have not even been born, actually have already made all the decisions they will ever make and it's all recorded in the future block.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
Psalm 139:16 ESV
Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.
Ephesians 1:4 ESV
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Galatians 1:15 ESV
But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,
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Seer mentioned before you even became self aware...before we are even conceived, everything is already written in the block universe.
That makes it a little questionable now. A person can not exist because they haven't been born yet, nor will they for thousands of years, and in the same block, they have been dead for thousands of years.
It's troubling to think that people who have not even been born, actually have already made all the decisions they will ever make and it's all recorded in the future block.
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Originally posted by seer View Post
I don't buy it. Even before you became self-aware every act and thought was written, frozen in static time. There is no ability to do 'otherwise' which is the crux of freedom. When I go back and watch myself eat that burrito the future was open, I could have chosen 'otherwise' - I have no power to chose 'otherwise' Block theory. The future is not open.
If your "written" choices are a result of your free will, then even if you can't change them, it doesn't matter. They were YOUR free will decisions. You can't change any decision after you make it. That's the nature of the universe. No do-overs. So all decisions and choices are final in time. If you could go back in time and watch Lincoln be assassinated, the fact that Booth can't do anything else but shoot Lincoln doesn't matter because it was his own free will decision to do it. It is what he chose to do. You knowing it doesn't matter.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
I don't know. I do believe that my future decisions will be my free will decisions even if I can't change them.
Look, I tried to explain it to you before:
You know what you ate for breakfast yesterday. Let's say it was your free will decision to eat a breakfast burrito. You know that and since it is in the past you can't change it. Now imagine you could go back in time and watch yourself make that decision. You would see yourself decide to eat a breakfast burrito. You will not choose to eat anything else. Because you remember yourself eating that breakfast burrito. It can't be changed, and yet it is a free will decision. IF you had chosen something else, say Cheerios, then that is what you would remember eating and what you would see yourself choosing if you could go back in time and see it.
Just extend that into the future. Let's say that you in the future on Friday, know that tomorrow morning you will choose to eat a muffin for breakfast. That means tomorrow you will freely choose to eat a muffin for breakfast. If you were going to eat something else, that is what the Seer on Friday would know. So no matter what free will decision you make tomorrow, your future self of Friday remembers that, and that is what you will do tomorrow. Freely.
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