Is time physical?

[seer]

What happened then if not change? What else do you call it?

I'm still not getting a lot of this.

I call it change because I hold to A theory. But with B theory I exist in every condition or state. I am still a baby, a 30 year old man, a 70 year old man, and on my death bed. Every position is frozen in static time. Where is the change?

[Machinist]

I call it change because I hold to A theory. But with B theory I exist in every condition or state. I am still a baby, a 30 year old man, a 70 year old man, and on my death bed. Every position is frozen in static time. Where is the change?

Maybe it's not change per se, but rather each "slice" or "frame" is just a little different than the one before it. It's more like a sequence than a flow. Although there is definitely a continuity to these sequences: for instance, you can tell I am the same person I was five years ago. I just look a bit more weathered.

[GKC_fan]

Now time IS physical! Behold the Time Crystal!

https://www.quantamagazine.org/first...uter-20210730/

Wow!! Awesome! Thanks for sharing this, Sparko!

[Stoic]

That is weak Stoic, I most certainly do understand what B Theory claims, I have debated the issue on a number of occasions, even with two philosophers of science.

And I'm quite confident that they eventually threw their hands up at your inability to understand what they were saying.

That is why I ask the question I do - which you have no response to.

When you ask questions based on an a misunderstanding of the subject, it's not surprising that there is no response that you can comprehend.

You/they need to revert to time lines, different times, the axis of time, etc.. But such differences can not exist if time is static.The B theorists need to use the language of flow to make these distinction, The very thing they claim doesn't exist.

To talk about something at time A being different from something at time B says nothing about a flow from A to B, or from B to A.

[Machinist]

To talk about something at time A being different from something at time B says nothing about a flow from A to B, or from B to A.

You're saying that there is no flow, right? There is a continuity though, which makes it indistinguishable from flow.

[seer]

And I'm quite confident that they eventually threw their hands up at your inability to understand what they were saying.


When you ask questions based on an a misunderstanding of the subject, it's not surprising that there is no response that you can comprehend.

Stoic, take one or two points and tell me what I misunderstood. Be specific.

To talk about something at time A being different from something at time B says nothing about a flow from A to B, or from B to A.

Here we go, if time is static where is the difference? Is time different? How is Time B different from Time A.

[seer]

Maybe it's not change per se, but rather each "slice" or "frame" is just a little different than the one before it. It's more like a sequence than a flow. Although there is definitely a continuity to these sequences: for instance, you can tell I am the same person I was five years ago. I just look a bit more weathered.

If B theory is true, you have always been a baby, an adult, and dead. Now being an adult is not the same as being a baby but both are locked in static time. You are both a baby and an adult and dead. You have not changed to be a bit more weathered you have always been in that condition and not in that condition (still a baby).

[Machinist]

If B theory is true, you have always been a baby, an adult, and dead. Now being an adult is not the same as being a baby but both are locked in static time. You are both a baby and an adult and dead. You have not changed to be a bit more weathered you have always been in that condition and not in that condition (still a baby).

Just for clarification, are you saying that Sparko and Stoic are not representing B correctly?

[Sparko]

Sound of black hole, sheesh, sounds like hell...

All they are doing is playing different sound pitches for different light values in the picture (that bar that is going around). Black holes don't make sounds and if they played the actual black hole light values it would all be zero, since it is black.

[Sparko]

Okay, you've proved over and over and over that you don't (and won't) understand the B theory of time or the Block Universe theory.

So there's no need to discuss it any further.

I said that several posts ago. I can't tell whether he is playing dumb or really just doesn't understand it. But I have tried to explain it over and over and I am tired of doing it. Personally I think he is just playing dumb because he has no actual answer to our points. So he mocks it instead.

[seer]

Just for clarification, are you saying that Sparko and Stoic are not representing B correctly?

I don't know, do they believe that past, present and future exist together? The second thing, think about this; if that is correct (and it is what B Theory teaches) then the WHOLE universe is both as we see it today and the WHOLE universe is the size of its initial beginning - the size of a golf ball. Both these condition exist side by side. I say that is nonsensical. They attempt to get past that by using differing slices of time, but no such time line exists if time is static (as it is in B theory).


B-theorists argue that the flow of time is only a subjective illusion of human consciousness, that the past, present, and future are equally real, and that time is tenseless: temporal becoming is not an objective feature of reality. Therefore, there is nothing privileged about the present, ontologically speaking.

[Sparko]

If B theory is true, you have always been a baby, an adult, and dead. Now being an adult is not the same as being a baby but both are locked in static time. You are both a baby and an adult and dead. You have not changed to be a bit more weathered you have always been in that condition and not in that condition (still a baby).

The change is in the difference between the time you were a baby and now. The difference is the change. Just like when you compare the difference between two times under A-theory, Seer.

[seer]

I said that several posts ago. I can't tell whether he is playing dumb or really just doesn't understand it. But I have tried to explain it over and over and I am tired of doing it. Personally I think he is just playing dumb because he has no actual answer to our points. So he mocks it instead.

Sparko do you believe that the WHOLE universe is as we see it today and that the WHOLE universe is in its initial stage - about the size of a golf ball? Do you believe that you are both a baby and an adult? So stop with your snide remarks.

[seer]

The change is in the difference between the time you were a baby and now. The difference is the change. Just like when you compare the difference between two times under A-theory, Seer.

Sheesh, there is and can not be a difference in time if time is static. Do you still exist as a baby?

[Sparko]

I don't know, do they believe that past, present and future exist together? The second thing, think about this; if that is correct (and it is what B Theory teaches) then the WHOLE universe is both as we see it today and the WHOLE universe is the size of its initial beginning - the size of a golf ball. Bout these condition exist side by side. I say that is nonsensical. They attempt to get past that by using differing slices of time, but no such time line exists if time is static (as it is in B theory).


B-theorists argue that the flow of time is only a subjective illusion of human consciousness, that the past, present, and future are equally real, and that time is tenseless: temporal becoming is not an objective feature of reality. Therefore, there is nothing privileged about the present, ontologically speaking.

This is where you are mistaken, they (the big bang and as we know it today) don't "exists side by side" they exist at different times. And "slices" was just an analogy. The point being there are different time coordinates just like there are different space coordinates. You can create a coordinate system to pin point the location of an object in space (like our GPS system does) and you can use time coordinates to pinpoint a location of an object in time. That object which as you say, exists as a complete 4 dimensional object, still has a three dimensional aspect that exists at time coordinates. So the 4 dimensional universe which contains the big bang and heat death, still has different 3 dimensional aspects that exist at various times. At time zero it exists as a 3 dimensional golf ball sized object. At time=heat death it exists as a 3D humongous spread out universe consisting of cooling atoms.