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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Free Will and Omniscience

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  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    I have no idea what "a typical world view" might be.
    Unless you have a biblical worldview, you won't be able to define it. There is a stark contrast.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

      Unless you have a biblical worldview, you won't be able to define it. There is a stark contrast.
      What precisely is "a biblical worldview"? You write these phrases yet fail to define them.
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • I have a firm belief in predestination. People who reject Christ are predestined for judgement, until they repent. People who accept Christ are predestined for blessing, until they repent.
        sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
          I have a firm belief in predestination. People who reject Christ are predestined for judgement, until they repent. People who accept Christ are predestined for blessing, until they repent.
          Some people are arbitrarily predestined to believe and repent. Most are arbitrarily predestined to hate God and perish. “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Romans 9:15–18 (KJV 1900)


          “Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?” Romans 9:21–24 (KJV 1900)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

            What precisely is "a biblical worldview"? You write these phrases yet fail to define them.
            The most typical of all religions is God watches people and rewards them according to their behavior. The Christian worldview says God damned the world in Adam as a corrupt species. But used it to glorify Himself and to make Himself known. Sin reveals God's mercy, righteousness, judgment, sovereignty, wrath, love, and power. God causes everything that ever happens right down to the choices each person makes.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

              Some people are arbitrarily predestined to believe and repent. Most are arbitrarily predestined to hate God and perish. “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Romans 9:15–18 (KJV 1900)


              “Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?” Romans 9:21–24 (KJV 1900)
              The fact that God is not willing that any should die can't be shoehorned into that interpretation quite so easily. God will however withdraw the opportunity for repentance on (rare) occasion.
              sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                The most typical of all religions is God watches people and rewards them according to their behavior. The Christian worldview says God damned the world in Adam as a corrupt species. But used it to glorify Himself and to make Himself known. Sin reveals God's mercy, righteousness, judgment, sovereignty, wrath, love, and power. God causes everything that ever happens right down to the choices each person makes.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7GHFuWsmX0
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                  Some people are arbitrarily predestined to believe and repent. Most are arbitrarily predestined to hate God and perish. “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Romans 9:15–18 (KJV 1900)


                  “Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?” Romans 9:21–24 (KJV 1900)
                  Yes, this old trope totally and completely misses the point Paul was making. Paul was not answering the question of which individuals does God save. Do you have any idea what question Paul was actually addressing with these statements?
                  "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                  "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    The fact that God is not willing that any should die can't be shoehorned into that interpretation quite so easily. God will however withdraw the opportunity for repentance on (rare) occasion.
                    “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any (usward) should perish, but that all (usward) should come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9 (KJV 1900)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                      “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any (usward) should perish, but that all (usward) should come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9 (KJV 1900)

                      Are you unaware of the other passages which declare that God "is not willing that any should die"? And please, the interpolated of "uswards" in the later clauses are wholly unwarranted - they aren't even coherent.
                      "not willing that any toward (or "for") us should perish,"

                      If it means "for us," you would be saying that God was not willing that Christ should die.

                      "that all toward (or "for") us should come to repentance." Really??
                      Last edited by tabibito; 08-01-2021, 04:41 AM.
                      sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by tabibito View Post


                        Are you unaware of the other passages which declare that God "is not willing that any should die"? And please, the interpolated of "uswards" in the later clauses are wholly unwarranted - they aren't even coherent.
                        "not willing that any toward (or "for") us should perish,"

                        If it means "for us," you would be saying that God was not willing that Christ should die.

                        "that all toward (or "for") us should come to repentance." Really??
                        Where does it say that? He is willing that all die in Adam and we do.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                          Some people are arbitrarily predestined to believe and repent. Most are arbitrarily predestined to hate God and perish. “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Romans 9:15–18 (KJV 1900)


                          “Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?” Romans 9:21–24 (KJV 1900)

                          Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post

                          Yes, this old trope totally and completely misses the point Paul was making. Paul was not answering the question of which individuals does God save. Do you have any idea what question Paul was actually addressing with these statements?
                          So...the answer is no, you don't know what Paul was actually talking about? Here's a hint, read verses 1-6.
                          "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                          "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post




                            So...the answer is no, you don't know what Paul was actually talking about? Here's a hint, read verses 1-6.
                            If you take Paul at his word without rewriting it to your liking, you will begin to know the truth.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                              If you take Paul at his word without rewriting it to your liking, you will begin to know the truth.
                              To take Paul at his word, you have to know what he's actually saying. You're the one rewriting it to fit your soteriology. Paul writes ch 9 about the promise of God toward the nation of Israel. If you do actual exegesis, it becomes obvious. I know the truth, and it has truly set me free.
                              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post

                                To take Paul at his word, you have to know what he's actually saying. You're the one rewriting it to fit your soteriology. Paul writes ch 9 about the promise of God toward the nation of Israel. If you do actual exegesis, it becomes obvious. I know the truth, and it has truly set me free.
                                Did you know God grafted gentile believers into Isreal when he removed the unbelievers? So all applies to us now.

                                Comment

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