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Hypostatic Quaternity

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  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Nestorius’ second and third letters to Pope Celestine I at the beginning and end of 430 respectively are an attempt to explain and then justify his position and the third letter shows his acceptance of the term Christotokos.
    Actually, Nestorius writes

    Nonetheless, I have no doubt that the term Theotokos is inferior to the term Christotokos, as the latter is mentioned by the angels and the gospels. (Tertullian.org Not Secure [link is on the "Not Secure" as a disclaimer, it's likely just missing SSL, no sensitive information required though])
    So this understanding here:

    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    As I understand it Nestorius expressed concern for the title Theotokos for the Virgin, considering that this title denied the human nature of the Christ and would have preferred the term Anthropotokos (emphasis added) but was prepared to compromise on Christotokos given that the human Jesus was born and suffered and died even though he was divine logos as well.
    is a misunderstanding.


    John Anthony McGuckin, The Westminster Handbook to Patristic Theology, Westminster John Knox Press, London & Lousiville,2004
    Internet Archive doesn't have this book so I can't look into it


    Aubrey R . Vine, The Nestorian Churches: A Concise History of Nestorian Christianity in Asia from the Persian Schism to the Modern Assyrian, Independent Press Ltd, London, 1937]
    This book doesn't mention Anthropotokos at all.
    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

    -Ghandi (Disputed)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

      I think we should leave it there. Suffice to state that you and I do not agree on the above but I do not want to derail your thread any further than I already have done - for which I apologise!
      No your good. What was this thread about anyway? Some quasi-hallucinatory musings?

      I agree that that suffices. Either the symbolism resonates within a person or it doesn't. It resonates within me. There is meaning there. The Death Burial and Resurrection of Jesus, the incarnate of God, has meaning to me in an Archetypal sense.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        You're OK with that? (many are, obviously)



        So, unless you find something that troubles you - like some off the wall belief you can't abide - and the pastor is actually preaching the truths of the Bible, not just telling good stories...
        The Sermon yesterday was a really good perspective on the Beatitudes.

        The Calvinism part doesn't really bother me as it's not the focus. I think it's just something understood by everyone that that is the way things are. They've got great music there too. Probably the best pianist in these parts. A Vietnamese lady, a visitor, played along a few Sundays ago with some kind of little stand up stringed instrument that she played with a bow. Man! The chills! She made that thing sing!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

          Actually, Nestorius writes



          So this understanding here:



          is a misunderstanding.
          You seem rather prone to making unsupported pronouncements Would you care to elucidate?


          Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
          Internet Archive doesn't have this book so I can't look into it
          Do you not have access to a library or a bookshop?


          Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
          This book doesn't mention Anthropotokos at all.
          I never wrote that it did. It was a book I consulted when composing my reply.
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
            Actually, Nestorius writes


            Nonetheless, I have no doubt that the term Theotokos is inferior to the term Christotokos, as the latter is mentioned by the angels and the gospels. (Tertullian.org Not Secure [link is on the "Not Secure" as a disclaimer, it's likely just missing SSL, no sensitive information required though])
            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
            You seem rather prone to making unsupported pronouncements Would you care to elucidate?


            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
              You seem rather prone to making unsupported pronouncements Would you care to elucidate?
              I gave the link which included the quote from 3rd Letter from Nestorius to Pope Celestine.

              Do you not have access to a library or a bookshop?
              At that point in time, the thread would be dead.

              I never wrote that it did. It was a book I consulted when composing my reply.
              You used the book, at least in consultation, to defend your understanding that Nestorius preferred Anthropotokos but settled for Christotokos. If the other book you cited supports that contention, I can't quickly check that claim. From the sources that are readily accessible, it seems Nestorius preferred Christokos but accepted Theotokos "provided that its popular implications were not unduly pressed." (Per Vine).
              “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

              -Ghandi (Disputed)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Two Non-Christians discussing the finer points of a Christological heresy according to Western Christendom.
                “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

                -Ghandi (Disputed)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                  I gave the link which included the quote from 3rd Letter from Nestorius to Pope Celestine.



                  At that point in time, the thread would be dead.



                  You used the book, at least in consultation, to defend your understanding that Nestorius preferred Anthropotokos but settled for Christotokos. If the other book you cited supports that contention, I can't quickly check that claim. From the sources that are readily accessible, it seems Nestorius preferred Christokos but accepted Theotokos "provided that its popular implications were not unduly pressed." (Per Vine).
                  Your link did not appear for me but I seem to have provided the same one. http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/ne...letters_01.htm.

                  As for the rest, you can look forward to when the public libraries and/or bookshops open once again.

                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    Your link did not appear for me but I seem to have provided the same one. http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/ne...letters_01.htm.

                    I quoted the letter and linked it in #Post 106.

                    Even rogue06 saw the linked citation. The link you cite now is the actual the link I used.
                    Last edited by Diogenes; 02-22-2021, 12:28 PM.
                    “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

                    -Ghandi (Disputed)

                    Comment


                    • Someone in this conversation is guilty of amalgamating metaphors.

                      Comment


                      • It's all in the literary devices. These devices that we use to share ideas.

                        Comment


                        • No. It's an amalgamation of literary devices!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post


                            I quoted the letter and linked it in #Post 106.

                            Even rogue06 saw the linked citation. The link you cite now is the actual the link I used.
                            Yes I know that. The blue link did not show up at the time.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post


                              I quoted the letter and linked it in #Post 106.

                              Even rogue06 saw the linked citation. The link you cite now is the actual the link I used.
                              "Even"? I might need new glasses but I'm not blind smiley old.gif

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                "Even"? I might need new glasses but I'm not blind smiley old.gif
                                ......It was more a reference to your quoting me when I gave the link and Hypatia's assertion of me making an unsupported pronouncement of what Nestorius wrote as seen in Post #110
                                “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

                                -Ghandi (Disputed)

                                Comment

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