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Cogito ergo sum

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Hypostatic Quaternity

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  • Hypostatic Quaternity

    Could there hypothetically be such a thing?

    Let me explain just a little, and this may require more imagination than I.Q.:

    Jesus is God. How? Hypostatically. The 3 in 1 are 3 in 1 through the function of Hypostasis. I do not know what that term means, but that is the term used.

    The Trinity is held together through Hypostasis. Would Glue be a useful metaphor here?

    Why couldn't there be a hypostatic 4-ness?

    Or a hypostatic all-ness. maybe that's what pantheism is? Everything in the universe is hypostatically one?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Machinist View Post
    Could there hypothetically be such a thing?

    Let me explain just a little, and this may require more imagination than I.Q.:

    Jesus is God. How? Hypostatically. The 3 in 1 are 3 in 1 through the function of Hypostasis. I do not know what that term means, but that is the term used.

    The Trinity is held together through Hypostasis. Would Glue be a useful metaphor here?

    Why couldn't there be a hypostatic 4-ness?

    Or a hypostatic all-ness. maybe that's what pantheism is? Everything in the universe is hypostatically one?
    Hypostasis is essentially an underlying reality or substance so I don't think "glue" is a good metaphor.

    TBH, this is not an area that I understand very well so I don't plan on trying to explain it more than I did.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Machinist View Post
      Could there hypothetically be such a thing?

      Let me explain just a little, and this may require more imagination than I.Q.:

      Jesus is God. How? Hypostatically. The 3 in 1 are 3 in 1 through the function of Hypostasis. I do not know what that term means, but that is the term used.

      The Trinity is held together through Hypostasis. Would Glue be a useful metaphor here?

      Why couldn't there be a hypostatic 4-ness?

      Or a hypostatic all-ness. maybe that's what pantheism is? Everything in the universe is hypostatically one?
      Any analogy regarding the Trininty breaks down pretty quickly because of the absolute uniqueness of the Trinity.

      One of the best analogies was one offered by Tweb Poster Little Joe --

      It's like a treaty.
      (I'll probably blow this, but....)

      Two countries decide (for whatever reason) to enter into a treaty.
      Let's say the US and Germany.
      Three copies of the treaty are prepared -- one in English, one in German, and one in French - the international language of the United Nations.

      All three documents are "the treaty". Each document contains the entire treaty. They're not "versions" of the treaty - each document IS the treaty.

      Rogue - is that how LJ explained it?
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #4
        In his own words

        Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
        Let's suppose that there is a treaty drawn up between the US and Germany. How many treaties are executed? The answer is three: A treaty executed in English, a treaty executed in German, and a treaty executed in French (which of course is the language of the UN). Every one of the these three treaties is fully the treaty, they are not just copies of the treaty. The English Treaty is fully and actually the treaty apart from and separate from the other two. The French version is fully and actually the treaty...again apart from and separate from the others. At the same time, the German Treaty is also fully and separately the actual treaty. Yet, there is no question that the treaties are different as one is in English, one in French and one in German. So, you have one "Thing", the treaty between the US and Germany can be made up of three "Things" (the English, German and French treaty) where each of them is fully the "Thing" (the treaty) but each of the 3 things are distinct from each other.

        There you have it, three things that are one thing.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          In his own words

          Thanks
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, much much thanks!

            Comment


            • #7
              It's a beautiful analogy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                It's a beautiful analogy.
                I thumk it up all by myself!!!

                (after reading it from LJ )
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  I thumk it up all by myself!!!

                  (after reading it from LJ )
                  LJ also used another analogy (but not as good as the treaty one) using the US Circuit Court of Appeals where each Court is made up of three judges, each (equally) a federal judge, but it takes all three to make up a valid court.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    LJ also used another analogy (but not as good as the treaty one) using the US Circuit Court of Appeals where each Court is made up of three judges, each (equally) a federal judge, but it takes all three to make up a valid court.
                    Yeah, of all the analogies I've heard, the Treaty one seems to be the best fit.

                    So far.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ontology - Information Science.
                      Did you know that there was a field of Information science called Ontology?
                      The three treaties in 3 different languages.
                      Would you say that these 3 treaties were hypostatically the same?
                      I'm starting to think that "ontologically the same" is the same as "hypostatically the same".
                      It all deals with the property of information.

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                      • #12
                        It's like personifying properties: this property is the the Father, this the Son, this the Holy Spirit. The Analogies are Personifications of Properties.

                        The treaty analogy appeals to me at least in a literary way because it deals in properties of information.

                        I was thinking of one that dealt with value, but couldn't really think of a third one:

                        Take a Silver Coin for instance, a $20 piece with an American Eagle on it for instance.

                        The item possesses 1.) Melt value - the price that the coin could be liquidated for based solely on the weight of the coin itself.

                        2. ) Numismatic value - that's the value of the image on the coin, the collectors value I guess this may be tied to the time value of money.

                        3.) Market value? Is there a difference here?

                        If the Trinity is a reality, then shouldn't there be an understandable watertight analogy here on Earth? I'm sure there is, and the treaty is in the right direction I think. I would imagine that it would involve some pretty numinous abstractions, but it would be something that we could understand and verify. Or maybe it's something so simple that no one has yet been able to discern it. Whatever it is, it's going to deal with the qualities of properties, I would think. To date however, I don't think there is one that has ever been Canonized by the Church.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The 3 different languages though, isn't just information, it's an Ontology of information of sorts. That makes it even more appealing! Right? Wouldn't you say? English, French, German...these are not "information" per se. It is another something, a set of rules, by which information is to be arranged. I think I may have that right based on the idea of Ontology in this paper:

                          file:///C:/Users/TEMP.DESKTOP-9BLJ342.000.001.002.003.004.005.006.007.008.009.01 0.011/Downloads/fois-intro.pdf

                          I mean yes, it's information fundamentally, but it's a set of tighter rules that govern the transmission of ideas about other information and so on and so on.

                          Computer Science has actually reached a point where they are intersecting philosophy and are borrowing the same terms to describe stuff.
                          Last edited by Machinist; 02-01-2021, 06:31 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                            It's like personifying properties: this property is the the Father, this the Son, this the Holy Spirit. The Analogies are Personifications of Properties.

                            The treaty analogy appeals to me at least in a literary way because it deals in properties of information.

                            I was thinking of one that dealt with value, but couldn't really think of a third one:

                            Take a Silver Coin for instance, a $20 piece with an American Eagle on it for instance.

                            The item possesses 1.) Melt value - the price that the coin could be liquidated for based solely on the weight of the coin itself.

                            2. ) Numismatic value - that's the value of the image on the coin, the collectors value I guess this may be tied to the time value of money.

                            3.) Market value? Is there a difference here?

                            If the Trinity is a reality, then shouldn't there be an understandable watertight analogy here on Earth? I'm sure there is, and the treaty is in the right direction I think. I would imagine that it would involve some pretty numinous abstractions, but it would be something that we could understand and verify. Or maybe it's something so simple that no one has yet been able to discern it. Whatever it is, it's going to deal with the qualities of properties, I would think. To date however, I don't think there is one that has ever been Canonized by the Church.
                            First that's a gold coin not silver. There's a reason you've probably heard the term "silver dollar."

                            And the face value, weight value and collectable value are radically different. The face value is $20. The weight value is currently $59.61/gram and a gold eagle weighs 33.436 grams (although 10% copper). And some of those coins, depending on rarity and condition go for over a million dollars

                            As for "understandable watertight analogies"... There is no such thing. All analogies will fall apart at some point regardless of what they're about.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post

                              First that's a gold coin not silver. There's a reason you've probably heard the term "silver dollar."

                              And the face value, weight value and collectable value are radically different. The face value is $20. The weight value is currently $59.61/gram and a gold eagle weighs 33.436 grams (although 10% copper). And some of those coins, depending on rarity and condition go for over a million dollars

                              As for "understandable watertight analogies"... There is no such thing. All analogies will fall apart at some point regardless of what they're about.
                              An aside....

                              We had a financial planner at our church (maybe 20 years ago) who gave a good illustration on money.
                              He had a $20 bill in one hand, and a $20 gold piece in the other.

                              He said, "in 1890, this $20 gold piece would buy a man's suit, pair of shoes and a tie" "so would this $20 bill".
                              Then, "today, this $20 gold piece will still buy a man's suit, pair of shoes and a tie" -- "this $20 bill MIGHT buy a cheap tie".

                              (don't remember the exact date - 1890 or 1920 --- but you get the picture.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment

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