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Why is the Trinity an essential to there even being a God?
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. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by flowers92 View PostFair enough, I had no clue
but what about this:
Matthew 22:41-46
Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question,
saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.”
He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,
“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet”’?
If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?”
And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.
Jesus asks how can King David call the messiah lord if he is his son?.... because the messiah is God himself (the only conclusion.... they even stopped asking him questions lol). . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostAh, no. Not this citation. "The LORD [meaning God] said to my Lord [not refering to deity]," but human descent. Why would King David call his descendant his Lord? is what Jesus had asked.
1. the Hebrew term is often used of God in OT
2. David called his descendant, the messiah, Lord because he is God incarnate... Psalm 2Bible Questions on The Theology QA.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you Matthew" 7:7
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Originally posted by flowers92 View Post""The LORD [meaning God] said to my Lord [not refering to deity]," but human descent" <- this is Adding to the text
1. the Hebrew term is often used of God in OT
2. David called his descendant, the messiah, Lord because he is God incarnate... Psalm 2
Jesus in His resurrection as an example was addressed as both "my Lord" and as "my God," BTW. (John 20:28.)
Psalm 2:7 refers to His bodily resurrection (Acts 13:33) being He is an incarnated Man. As the Lord who is at the right hand of God as the Man (1 Timothy 2:5). Which does not negate His full deity with His Father.Last edited by 37818; 04-14-2016, 02:17 PM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by flowers92 View PostThe bible does not support that. Judaism today does not derive all its theology from the OT, but they have external "traditions".
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
btw number 23 s referring to man's sin nature "lie", which is irrelevant because Jesus knew no sin being fully man & fully God.
The translation in original Hebrew is present tense, not future tense as a prophesy.
See Also: http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Med...led/yeled.htmlGlendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by flowers92 View Post& there is actually much more on this in the OT.
Psalm 2
I will tell of the decree:
The LORD said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostThe translation in original Hebrew is present tense, not future tense as a prophesy.
It should also be noted what Isaiah wrote (53:6) is in the past tense, ". . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. . . ." And is often cited as a prophecy of Christ's death for our sins (by me and other Christians).. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostNoted.
It should also be noted what Isaiah wrote (53:6) is in the past tense, ". . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. . . ." And is often cited as a prophecy of Christ's death for our sins (by me and other Christians).Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostLikewise, this is indeed the fault of faulty translation and interpretation of Christians as prophecy.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostGlendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostLikewise, this is indeed the fault of faulty translation and interpretation of Christians as prophecy.
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Originally posted by Super Cow View PostSo who are these scriptures referring to? And how does one determine from a Jewish perspective what is Messianic prophecy vs. present tense?
Do the Jews have scriptural references tied to a future Messiah?Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostJews do not share your enthusiasm for this as prophesy.
The translation in original Hebrew is present tense, not future tense as a prophesy.
See Also: http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Med...led/yeled.htmlBible Questions on The Theology QA.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you Matthew" 7:7
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostThe Psalm Jesus cited referred to God saying to a lord (Psalm 110:1). Not as the deity.
may be wishful thinking on your behalf. But the text does not support that. This is a messianic text David is not calling another King lord.Bible Questions on The Theology QA.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you Matthew" 7:7
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Originally posted by flowers92 View PostMy point is "this is Adding to the text"
may be wishful thinking on your behalf. But the text does not support that. This is a messianic text David is not calling another King lord.
There are two ways to misread a text. Reading into the text what does not say. Or to deny what says and means.
Who spoke to David's "lord?" And who was that "lord" in the text? ". . . The LORD saith unto my lord: 'Sit thou at My right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.' . . ." Psalm 110:1
Questions: Was Jesus a human descendant of David? Is Jesus still a human (1 Timothy 2:5)?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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