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Why is the Trinity an essential to there even being a God?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by flowers92 View Post
    Wait til you meet the Jews i met :)
    I guess, yes, different Jews believe differently. I attend a local liberal synagogue on occasion, make friends, and actually make an effort to study the Jewish perspective of the Torah, and religion in general. The Jews I know range from hard atheist, to devoted orthodox theists, to messianic Jews that believe some form of Christianity. My references reflect the dominant belief from the orthodox to mainline liberal Judaism. I cannot form an opinion from the perspective of individual Jews, like any religion, they can believe anything. If you have any particular views of Jews that are meaningful to the discussion, please post them.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    • #77
      Well you said liberal... not much to be expected there.
      Bible Questions on The Theology QA.

      "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you Matthew" 7:7

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      • #78
        Originally posted by flowers92 View Post
        Well you said liberal... not much to be expected there.
        I also know some Orthodox where I perform Mime and Stand Up Comedy at No Shame Theater. You apparently missed my previous reference.

        Actually I find Jews happier, better adjusted, and more comfortable with believers of other religions like mine, the Baha'i Faith, than in Christianity. My preference for the more liberal Jewish Synagogue is the light side of Judaism is more friendlier. There is more there and in both that your apparently missing.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          I am of the persuasion that the Christian Trinity explanation is essential to there even being a God. The foundation to accept this is generally denied. The argument can be proposed that if the Trinity is not true that there could not even be a God.
          I do not believe that any trinitarian understanding of God could be arrived at apart from special or supernatural revelation. In other words, a trinitarian understanding of God cannot be arrived at by general or natural revelation alone. Based on Romans 1, the oneness of God may be known by creation and apart from supernatural revelation. However, knowledge of the unique relationship between the persons of the Trinity occurs in the context of the unfolding redemptive narrative of Scripture; it must be gained by supernatural revelation.
          For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

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          • #80
            Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post
            I do not believe that any trinitarian understanding of God could be arrived at apart from special or supernatural revelation. In other words, a trinitarian understanding of God cannot be arrived at by general or natural revelation alone. Based on Romans 1, the oneness of God may be known by creation and apart from supernatural revelation. However, knowledge of the unique relationship between the persons of the Trinity occurs in the context of the unfolding redemptive narrative of Scripture; it must be gained by supernatural revelation.
            Just for starters. There is a difference between Uncaused Existence and Uncaused Cause. They being both Uncaused. But Existence and Cause are two different things. In order for there to be an Uncaused Cause there has to be an Uncaused Existence.
            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              I am of the persuasion that the Christian Trinity explanation is essential to there even being a God. The foundation to accept this is generally denied. The argument can be proposed that if the Trinity is not true that there could not even be a God.
              ISTM that the Mystery of the inner Life of the Most Blessed Trinity illustrates, beautifully, the Johannine words that "God is Love" - thus:

              The Father Loves the Son
              The Son Loves the Father

              Both of Those Who are Love & and are Beloved, are Infinite Divine Persons.
              And the Love Between Them, the Holy Spirit, is an Infinite Divine Person.

              The Shema in Deuteronomy 6.5 - which Jesus made the first and greatest commandment - is as follows: "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." It seems extremely safe to infer that what is commended of men, is what is happening in God, eternally. It is what Jesus did while on earth, perfectly & unceasingly. It is what He does now- therefore, since there is not the least difference in purpose between Him & His Father, it is what the Father does; because "Like Father, like Son" is perfectly verified here: "He who has seen Me, has see the Father". The moral Identity between Them is Perfect, and Infinite. Likewise for the Holy Spirit, Who is the Author & Spirit of Love.

              So if the question is "Why is God Tri-Une ?", one answer might be that this is unanswerable, and a second might be, "Because God is Love".

              The Love of the Divine Persons for the Divine Persons cannot be less than the love in creatures. But if it is as excellent and wonderful as it must be - since it is Eternal, Limitless, Unfailing, Universal, Holy, & Divine - then the Giver, the Gift & the Recipient must be co-equally & co-eternally God. Only God can give this Love Infintely; only God can receive such Love Infinitely; only God can be this Infinite Love.

              The Most Holy Trinity, because it is the supreme Mystery of the Christian Faith, cannot be proved by reason; words about It, are words, not It. It can be known to be Real only through Divine Revelation; though there are many hints and shadows of it in creation and history - "God has not left Himself without a witness" even in regard to this. That it is utterly mysterious, is a reminder that to know it is entirely and in all respects wholly gratuitous - to know it, depends entirely on the free and sovereign initiative of God; in no way is knowledge of the Most Holy Trinity owed to human nature, or to any creature whatever. Although such knowledge is not owed to human nature, this knowledge is not a violation of human nature, but is in accord with it. The proof of this is that Our Lord had a flawless human nature, and yet His entire Life, even on earth, was Trinitarian; as His Baptism shows.

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