The Clergy Project: Org for preachers who lose their faith

[whag]

What rules do you have in mind? In particular, are you thinking about the commandments to love one's brother/forgive sins?

Surely you've reduced belief to an absurd degree here. If the minimal requirement of a Christian is merely not lying, stealing, and murdering while also being quick to forgive, why add the burden of belief to it? Lots of people who were enculturated to worship different gods, or no gods at all, are kind and behave themselves.

[Rushing Jaws]

"No, God did not make it hard. He made it impossible."

## Which is the point - or half of it. The other is this "Then he provided salvation in Jesus Christ. You don't have to be perfect, you just have to rely on Jesus Christ."

If salvation/likeness to Christ were within our power to achieve, we would be in a position to look down on those who did not "come up to scratch". But none of us does. In comparison with God, every Christian in the universe - bar none - is a dismal failure; and the ones who are most Christ-like are the ones who are most keenly aware of how far they fall short of God's glory.

The "rules" are not the point of Christianity - or rather, are not the point of life "in Christ". Nor is the Bible, not by a long long long way. Christ is. If we start giving the Bible, or rules, or even our failure to live by them, or our attempts to live by them, or our own self-righteousness, pride of place, instead of giving pride of place to Christ & Christ alone, we will:

(1) go crazy trying to do the impossible

(2) be making something that is not central, into what is central

(3) become absolutely miserable

(4) very likely give up following Christ entirely

And all because we put the emphasis, not where it belongs, on Christ - but instead, on what we (fail to) do. Nothing in all creation, but nothing, is to be set on an equality with, or above, or in the place of, Christ.

[Jedidiah]

I can't come up with a better way to say that I can't forgive my fellow man and my soul is in serious danger, I can't love my brother. When God created his rules he sure made it hard. Count me out, this is ridiculous. Did I misunderstand that part of christianity? There's a better creator out there, there has to be.

No, God did not make it hard. He made it impossible. Then he provided salvation in Jesus Christ. You don't have to be perfect, you just have to rely on Jesus Christ.

[KingsGambit]

You're right, can't diss it until you try it and the christian walk is not for me, neither would I have the potential to achieve Christ's greatness. I never have been a true christian in my life but I've talked to many christians and have asked many questions so I wouldn't say I don't have a clue about what Christians believe. I've just never applied it or adopted their viewpoints into my beliefs. I think I understand christianity enough to the point where I can say that there's nothing but God's Wrath stored up for me. I don't mess around with the christian religion anymore.

I can't come up with a better way to say that I can't forgive my fellow man and my soul is in serious danger, I can't love my brother. When God created his rules he sure made it hard. Count me out, this is ridiculous. Did I misunderstand that part of christianity? There's a better creator out there, there has to be.

What rules do you have in mind? In particular, are you thinking about the commandments to love one's brother/forgive sins?

[Jedidiah]

Forgive me for saying so, mose, but you seem to have very little understanding of what Christianity is all about. And very little of what Christians believe.

[Teallaura]

Er, yeah - I'm still looking for supports for pastors who are dealing with doubt but haven't found anything. I think I'll just start another thread on it...

[Paprika]

The Project does not consist of "trusted pastors" (your phrase). It consists of former pastors who are working to help council pastors who want to leave their church. The entire purpose of the Project is help people get out of a pulpit, not to support them in the pulpit.

It also consists of current pastors that can commiserate with each other and encourage each other in their difficulties. The Project, while trying to help create an path for non-believing pastors to exit their respective church, also seeks to support them emotionally while they are still pastors and trying to find a way out, which often takes time.

Done trying to nitpick?

[Outis]

Since the project does see struggling clergy seeking emotional assistance, what is your point?

Are you just so interested in being right that common sense does not enter into the equation?

The Project does not consist of "trusted pastors" (your phrase). It consists of former pastors who are working to help council pastors who want to leave their church. The entire purpose of the Project is help people get out of a pulpit, not to support them in the pulpit.

[Paprika]

They certainly could--but that's not what this Project is about.

Since the project does involve struggling clergy seeking emotional assistance, what is your point?

[Outis]

And other pastors can't do that?

They certainly could--but that's not what this Project is about.

You do also have the issues of denominational compatibility. Some Baptist (for example) pastors would feel very uncomfortable talking with a Catholic priest, or a Nazarene, or a Presbyterian. Catholics and Orthodox may have some issues. That kind of thing. Though the Catholics and Orthodox usually have a greater resource for this, as they can (and are supposed to) go to their fellow priests, their bishops, that kind of thing.

[Paprika]

Yes, but the Project is not about supporting pastors in their church--it's about supporting pastors in _leaving_ their church. Not that doing so is a useless activity, but it's not the same thing.

And other pastors can't do that?

[Outis]

They seek out peers- people who are or have been in similar positions.

Yes, but the Project is not about supporting pastors in their church--it's about supporting pastors in _leaving_ their church. Not that doing so is a useless activity, but it's not the same thing.

[Paprika]

The project mentioned in the article is not about counseling for from other pastors, but for pastors who have already lost or left their faith. A project of the type that you are speaking of would be a good idea as well, but the one in the article is not what you refer to.

the clergy continue at their jobs and seek out the online community for emotional assistance

They seek out peers- people who are or have been in similar positions.

[Outis]

I would hazard one major reason behind this phenomenon is the isolation of one local church from the Church. One natural choice for pastors who are struggling should be to seek out trusted pastors, which is precisely what they are doing when they interact in the Project, turning to counselling from other pastors, but on an anonymous basis.

The project mentioned in the article is not about counseling for from other pastors, but for pastors who have already lost or left their faith. A project of the type that you are speaking of would be a good idea as well, but the one in the article is not what you refer to.

[KingsGambit]

Very possibly, but there will always be pastors who leave the faith, even if the modern church was doing a stellar job at providing for its member and converts. And even if the church was doing a stellar job, the number of apostate pastors might still be large. So something like may just be a sad necessity anyways.

Heck, who knows. Maybe it'd help serve to bring some of the apostates back.

I agree, apologetics is not a magic force shield against apostasy.