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Heero's Question Thread REOPENED

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  • Heero's Question Thread REOPENED

    I am re-opening my quesiton thread from Old T-Web. Irate Cannadian started it last time. I hope to continue the discussion particularly with Soyeong.

    Soyeong's last question to me was: "So what would you have God do then?"

  • #2
    Originally posted by Heero Yuy View Post
    I am re-opening my quesiton thread from Old T-Web. Irate Cannadian started it last time. I hope to continue the discussion particularly with Soyeong.

    Soyeong's last question to me was: "So what would you have God do then?"
    I think a better question would be "What would God have me do?"
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you Cow Poke. That was a much nicer response than you could have given.

      Good point, though it never hurts to ask which God we are talking about. In this case the Christian God, but if others exist then wouldn't it be good to know what they want? I have found evidence that indeed other Gods may exist:

      www.19.org

      www.milkmiracle.com
      Last edited by Heero Yuy; 12-27-2014, 11:42 AM. Reason: Changed "but if..." to "?"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Heero Yuy View Post
        Thank you Cow Poke. That was a much nicer response than you could have given.

        Good point, though it never hurts to ask which God we are talking about. In this case the Christian God, but if others exist then wouldn't it be good to know what they want? I have found evidence that indeed other Gods may exist:

        www.19.org

        www.milkmiracle.com
        I don't think that I've ever met a polytheistic Christian before

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          Dear Forum,

          Soyeong your original question was about the Genoicides and what I would have had God done instead.

          If God stated that He had sent prophets and miracles among the Canannites and Amalykites and that those had failed, that would be a start. If God had added that he had created these people because evil, just like Good, must be expressed and brought to its destruction and conclusion, then that would be a step in the right direction.

          However, it isn't at all clear God sent prophets to them or that they were an expression of evil that had to come.

          In fact, in the New Testament, Jesus is recorded as saying that there are miracles he is performing that if they were given to such places as Sodom and Gomorrah or Tyre, that they would have repented in Sackcloth and ashes.

          It seems, when reading the scriptures, that God had motive, means, and opportunity to keep the peoples of Canaan as wicked as possible, so that he could destroy them.

          Further, I read on this forum and elsewhere that God had to work with the cultures of the Israelites, that they lived in a collectivist honor shame culture. Very good. However, it also seems that much of the Anchient World was Polytheistic. Even after Generations of threats and punishments, this was still going on among the Hebrews (Levis, Jews, Benjaminites, etc.) If God was going to work with them, then why not introduce the idea of Monotheism more slowly and allow other gods to be worshiped at first? That would have respected the culture that God was dealing with.

          When reading these narratives, it further seems that many of these Israelites had severe engrams. Look at how, for instance, the Clan of Korah acted. Consider how fast the people grumbled and how they began to claim that the Egyptians treated them more kindly than God. This inability to remember correctly, the occluded past, and the constant re stimulation are consistent with Engrams.
          I think it would have been a good idea to get rid of those before trying to start the Hebrews on a new system of Worship.

          A brief note on engrams, there is further evidence the Israelites had engrams because in the form of the harsh treatment by the Pharaoh and his minions. The Israelites were given impossible tasks, were beaten, were killed, had to watch as their children were killed.

          All of this reduces "tone," in a person, and cuts out the Analytical Mind. When the analytical mind is cut out the Reactive Mind is recording, and that mind can only think in terms of identities. Nor does one have to accept Hubbards theories to believe this. Doctor Maxwell Maltz and independent researcher Jose Silva report the same findings, that some part of our mind is always recording.

          I am not sure any of those narratives are historical though. It may be that they actually represent different parts of the mind and body. Dr. George Cary (God Man: The Word Made Flesh) and Dr. Joseph Murphy (multiple works) have done some good work in this regard in my opinion.

          -Heero
          Last edited by Heero Yuy; 12-27-2014, 12:21 PM. Reason: Incorrectly saved -auto save failed

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            I don't think that I've ever met a polytheistic Christian before
            Aren't Mormons polytheistic?

            And I know that Paul may have acknowledged other Christians.

            Edit: other gods, is what I meant to say

            -Heero
            Last edited by Heero Yuy; 12-27-2014, 12:26 PM. Reason: Grammer

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              I don't think that I've ever met a polytheistic Christian before
              Michael Suddoth might be one. He converted to the Vedanta (he is a follower of Krishna). He was a reformed theologian before.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Heero Yuy View Post
                Michael Suddoth might be one. He converted to the Vedanta (he is a follower of Krishna). He was a reformed theologian before.
                Sounds like he's more of a mixtian than a Christian.
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Heero Yuy View Post
                  Aren't Mormons polytheistic?
                  I think they're Smithians more than Christians -- they worship Joseph Smith's version of Christ, and are far more devoted to Smith than we are to Paul.

                  And I know that Paul may have acknowledged other Christians.

                  Edit: other gods, is what I meant to say

                  -Heero
                  Um... you're referring to Paul's reference to the unknown God?
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    I think they're Smithians more than Christians -- they worship Joseph Smith's version of Christ, and are far more devoted to Smith than we are to Paul.



                    Um... you're referring to Paul's reference to the unknown God?

                    "Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.…"

                    www.biblehub.com/1_corinthians/8-5.htm


                    Not perfect, but that is what I was thinking of.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Heero Yuy View Post
                      "Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.…"

                      www.biblehub.com/1_corinthians/8-5.htm


                      Not perfect, but that is what I was thinking of.
                      Paul clearly says there is only one God (bolded by me in your quote), and refers to those "so-called" gods... he's obviously referencing the fact that people wrongly assume there are gods other than the One True God.
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        But as for the meats that are sacrificed to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5For although there be that are called gods, either in heaven or on earth (for there be gods many, and lords many); 6Yet to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
                        Duay Rheims Chaloner Revision

                        As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
                        KJV

                        4 Even though food is offered to idols, we know that none of the idols in this world are alive. After all, there is only one God. 5 Many things in heaven and on earth are called gods and lords, but none of them really are gods or lords. 6 We have only one God, and he is the Father. He created everything, and we live for him. Jesus Christ is our only Lord. Everything was made by him, and by him life was given to us.
                        CEV

                        4 So to address your concerns about eating food offered to idols, let me start with what we know. An idol is essentially nothing, as there is no other God but the One. 5 And even if the majority believes there are many so-called gods in heaven and on earth (certainly many worship such “gods” and “lords”), this is not our view. 6 For us, there is one God, the Father who is the ultimate source of all things and the goal of our lives. And there is one Lord—Jesus the Anointed, the Liberating King; through Him all things were created, and by Him we are redeemed.
                        Voice

                        Now concerning the eating of food offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing+ in the world and that there is no God but one.+ 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth,+ just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God,+ the Father,+ from whom all things are and we for him;+ and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are+ and we through him.
                        NWT

                        4 Hence, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “no idol in the world really exists,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5 Indeed, even though there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as in fact there are many gods and many lords— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
                        NRSV

                        I think you are right Cow Poke. However, in the older versions and in the Voice, the reading is more sympathetic to my view. "Yet to us," DR, "but to us," KJV, "This is not our view" The Voice.

                        Now there is one source I know which say that the actual translation of the Gospels and Bible might actually mention other Gods.

                        https://www.google.com/url?

                        https://archive.org/details/restored...82001339,d.eXY

                        and Tom Stark mentions that pre-exilic texts in the OT achnoledge the existence of other Gods:

                        thomstark.net/copan/stark_copan-review.pdf

                        ctrl-f "gods" result no. 2 on page 8.

                        Overall I think my case is weak for this verse. I knew what it said when I posted it, never the less I think your interpretation is better than my own.

                        -Heero
                        Last edited by Heero Yuy; 12-27-2014, 02:17 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          I don't think that I've ever met a polytheistic Christian before
                          It has been mentioned that LDS Christians may be considered polytheistic. Also Trinitarians may be considered polytheistic, as believing three Gods in one. This not that much different from various Hindu or Vedic traditions believing the God(s) of these traditions are just aspects of the one true God Brahman.

                          I consider traditional Trinitarian Christianity including LDS as polytheistic as Vedic traditions.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            It has been mentioned that LDS Christians may be considered polytheistic. Also Trinitarians may be considered polytheistic, as believing three Gods in one. This not that much different from various Hindu or Vedic traditions believing the God(s) of these traditions are just aspects of the one true God Brahman.

                            I consider traditional Trinitarian Christianity including LDS as polytheistic as Vedic traditions.
                            face palm in action.gif
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]3387[/ATTACH]
                              You're not lookin' so good.

                              Take a couple dozen aspirin and call me in the morning.
                              Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-08-2015, 06:40 AM.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment

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