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Billy Graham and Jews, Christianity and Judaism

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  • Billy Graham and Jews, Christianity and Judaism

    https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/bill...apes-1.5844419

    Graham said some scurrilous things about Jews during the Nixon administration. While it was a while ago (almost a half century), I wonder if it represents a strain of Christian thought.

    On the one hand, it is Jews who have an inordinate amount of influence in this country, in Hollywood and the media, and on the other hand we have the nation of Israel fulfilling the prophetic utterances of the Lord in a culmination of history. That was basically the argument put forward by Graham (and others) a half century ago. It seems to be quite common today within Christianity. Has the outlook changed, or is the language more circumspect today?

  • #2
    This was settled many years ago. Why bring it up again now that he is dead?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by simplicio View Post
      https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/bill...apes-1.5844419

      Graham said some scurrilous things about Jews during the Nixon administration. While it was a while ago (almost a half century), I wonder if it represents a strain of Christian thought.

      On the one hand, it is Jews who have an inordinate amount of influence in this country, in Hollywood and the media, and on the other hand we have the nation of Israel fulfilling the prophetic utterances of the Lord in a culmination of history. That was basically the argument put forward by Graham (and others) a half century ago. It seems to be quite common today within Christianity. Has the outlook changed, or is the language more circumspect today?
      It it does represent an unfortunate strain of Christian thought in history, but I believe Billy Graham apologized and changed for this long ago.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #4
        If you want to discuss Christians and Jews, might I suggest starting a thread on the subject without Billy Graham? He's no longer here to defend himself.
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          If you want to discuss Christians and Jews, might I suggest starting a thread on the subject without Billy Graham? He's no longer here to defend himself.
          I don't see this as some attack on Graham, it was brought into the thread memorializing him. Since it can be argued that Graham is an important historical figure, I think examining his ideas within the broader context of the faith, and the context of Christians' views at that time as well as today.

          I am not really sure it was settled many years ago. While Graham recanted and likely repented, his initial reaction to rumors was to deny the charge (which was out of character for him, he was quite forthright on his views, even the changes in his outlook).

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by simplicio View Post
            I don't see this as some attack on Graham, it was brought into the thread memorializing him. Since it can be argued that Graham is an important historical figure, I think examining his ideas within the broader context of the faith, and the context of Christians' views at that time as well as today.

            I am not really sure it was settled many years ago. While Graham recanted and likely repented, his initial reaction to rumors was to deny the charge (which was out of character for him, he was quite forthright on his views, even the changes in his outlook).
            And yet you never brought this up until after he died. Must not have been a big deal then.

            Comment


            • #7
              It's not about Billy Graham....

              Originally posted by simplicio View Post
              I don't see this as some attack on Graham, it was brought into the thread memorializing him. Since it can be argued that Graham is an important historical figure, I think examining his ideas within the broader context of the faith, and the context of Christians' views at that time as well as today.
              It's about Billy Graham...

              I am not really sure it was settled many years ago. While Graham recanted and likely repented, his initial reaction to rumors was to deny the charge (which was out of character for him, he was quite forthright on his views, even the changes in his outlook).
              Let it go.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                I think it would be one thing if Billy Graham repeatedly made those kinds of comments throughout his life. Then it would be worth bringing up, whether or not he recently died. However he said them once decades ago and apologized for them.

                Having said that I'm not a big "be very careful to not speak ill of the dead" type of person when it comes to public figures. None of his family are here to take offense and he was a public figure and representative of Christianity to millions, so his legacy should be fair game.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                • #9
                  How common are those ideas today?

                  Mel Gibson's infamous tirade basically covered the same ground as Graham's. So it is not a relic of the past, conspiracy theories abound today. And many theories posit a group of Jews as a guiding hand in history.

                  I will repeat myself, I think Graham very likely repented of his comments. Not sure if his comments were a mirroring of other's (Nixon's) views, or an idea he held and embraced. But it is possible that he held those views, they were common in America in the mid twentieth century.

                  I think it represents a unique form of anti-Semitism, the acceptance of jewish conspiracy theory, along with the support of Israel, which is in effect a mixture of anti- and philo- Semitism. Jewish conspiracy theories are generally condemned as anti-Semitism when expressed outside of a Christian context. But when they are expressed within a context of biblical Christianity which recognizes a role for Israel in eschatology, the conspiracy theory is not seen as anti-Semitic.

                  Maybe it comes down to what is the role of the Body of Christ in addressing anti-Semitism. So I can rephrase the OP with the question: Should we send our children to a vacation bible school if our goal is to have them grow up rejecting Jewish conspiracy theories?. We would not send them to a camp run by some supremacist group because of a desire to isolate our children from such ideas. But would allowing children to attend a bible school program at a local church make it more likely or less likely that they would grow up accepting ideas of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                    But would allowing children to attend a bible school program at a local church make it more likely or less likely that they would grow up accepting ideas
                    Only thing that matters is whether ideas are true or not.

                    o I can rephrase the OP with the question: Should we send our children to a vacation bible school if our goal is to have them grow up rejecting Jewish conspiracy theories?.
                    Demi has related question: Should we send our children to lib college if our goal is to have them grow up rejecting lib dogma?
                    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                      How common are those ideas today?

                      Mel Gibson's infamous tirade basically covered the same ground as Graham's. So it is not a relic of the past, conspiracy theories abound today. And many theories posit a group of Jews as a guiding hand in history.

                      I will repeat myself, I think Graham very likely repented of his comments. Not sure if his comments were a mirroring of other's (Nixon's) views, or an idea he held and embraced. But it is possible that he held those views, they were common in America in the mid twentieth century.
                      Then why bring him into the discussion?

                      Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                      I think it represents a unique form of anti-Semitism, the acceptance of jewish conspiracy theory, along with the support of Israel, which is in effect a mixture of anti- and philo- Semitism. Jewish conspiracy theories are generally condemned as anti-Semitism when expressed outside of a Christian context. But when they are expressed within a context of biblical Christianity which recognizes a role for Israel in eschatology, the conspiracy theory is not seen as anti-Semitic.

                      Maybe it comes down to what is the role of the Body of Christ in addressing anti-Semitism. So I can rephrase the OP with the question: Should we send our children to a vacation bible school if our goal is to have them grow up rejecting Jewish conspiracy theories?. We would not send them to a camp run by some supremacist group because of a desire to isolate our children from such ideas. But would allowing children to attend a bible school program at a local church make it more likely or less likely that they would grow up accepting ideas of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy?
                      This question is acceptable with no need to try to drag in Graham.
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                        Then why bring him into the discussion?


                        This question is acceptable with no need to try to drag in Graham.
                        I do think that it is proper to bring in Billy Graham on this discussion, he is an important figure in the faith in the US. Maybe a part of the discussion ought to include the reasons why he held those views.

                        Why do you think Graham held such views that he was later appalled at the very words he uttered?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                          I do think that it is proper to bring in Billy Graham on this discussion, he is an important figure in the faith in the US. Maybe a part of the discussion ought to include the reasons why he held those views.

                          Why do you think Graham held such views that he was later appalled at the very words he uttered?
                          People change and grow. We live in a totally different world than we did "back then".
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                            I do think that it is proper to bring in Billy Graham on this discussion, he is an important figure in the faith in the US. Maybe a part of the discussion ought to include the reasons why he held those views.

                            Why do you think Graham held such views that he was later appalled at the very words he uttered?
                            While I understand that you may possibly be coming at this from a historical approach or wanting to use this to introduce a broader point, the reactions you have received really ought to have clued you into the simple fact that considering that Graham has not even been been laid to rest yet these questions are in bad taste.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                            • #15
                              1) The question does not bother me at all. I have general respect for Graham, but zero of the common hero worship he evokes, and zero sense of "Never speak ill of the dead."

                              2) Since the construction of the article doesn't make clear whether he was referring all Jews, most Jews, or only "liberal" Jews, I find his comments unfortunate, but not "scurrilous."

                              3) I am not at all familiar with any attitude of that sort among "my" people -- Evangelicals -- in my 38 years as a believer. I have heard some of the older generation of my Lutheran relatives say such things as, "Show me a problem, I'll show you a Jew behind it."
                              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                              Beige Nationalist.

                              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

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