Announcement

Collapse

General Theistics 101 Guidelines

This area is open for nontheists and theists to interact on issues of theism and faith in a civilized manner. We ask that nontheist participation respect the theistic views of others and not seek to undermine theism in general, or advocate for nontheism. Such posts are more suited for and allowable in Apologetics 301 with very little restriction.

The moderators of this area are given great discretion to determine if a particular thread or comment would more appropriately belong in another forum area.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Someone's Printing up Souls

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Someone's Printing up Souls

    My sister is off the deep end with whacky religious beliefs, conspiracies, and UFO theories. She recently sent me a bunch of news reports on kids who have uncanny memories of being another person, and it's kinda thrown me for a loop. I figured I'd watch a couple clips to kill some time and because I figured I could easily respond. I was kind of surprised that I found it hard to explain.

    I frankly don't know what's going on with these kids, but I'm immediately dismissing reincarnation only because it makes no mathematical sense. On a less logical more emotional level, though, I object to it because I find it repugnant as a spiritual "model" (in the same way I find eternally punishing Hindus who don't convert from their native religion to Christianity or Islam disturbing).

    This is a hostile planet. I'm not really interested in coming back in the form of another person or less intelligent creature. Yuck.

    You can find the clips on YouTube. Watch the ones with the highest views. Also, here's link to an article on it:

    http://www.collective-evolution.com/...ir-past-lives/

    The heck's going on here?

  • #2
    Bridey Murphy.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

    Comment


    • #3
      "Collective Evolution" is a hotbed for nuttery.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by whag View Post
        My sister is off the deep end with whacky religious beliefs, conspiracies, and UFO theories. She recently sent me a bunch of news reports on kids who have uncanny memories of being another person, and it's kinda thrown me for a loop. I figured I'd watch a couple clips to kill some time and because I figured I could easily respond. I was kind of surprised that I found it hard to explain.

        I frankly don't know what's going on with these kids, but I'm immediately dismissing reincarnation only because it makes no mathematical sense. On a less logical more emotional level, though, I object to it because I find it repugnant as a spiritual "model" (in the same way I find eternally punishing Hindus who don't convert from their native religion to Christianity or Islam disturbing).

        This is a hostile planet. I'm not really interested in coming back in the form of another person or less intelligent creature. Yuck.

        You can find the clips on YouTube. Watch the ones with the highest views. Also, here's link to an article on it:

        http://www.collective-evolution.com/...ir-past-lives/

        The heck's going on here?
        "Collective-Evolution is a woo-mongering click-bait website". It's about as convincing as Deepak Chopra.,

        http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Collective_Evolution
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • #5
          I used to work with a (brilliant) lawyer who was convinced he had died on the field at Gettysburg during the Civil War (and he could show you where).

          My off-the-cuff theory is that demons would have the capacity to have known the other people and would have the motivation to plant these thoughts in others in order to induce them to believe a lie.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by whag View Post
            ... On a less logical more emotional level, though, I object to it because I find it repugnant as a spiritual "model" (in the same way I find eternally punishing Hindus who don't convert from their native religion to Christianity or Islam disturbing). ...
            I too object to belief in reincarnation. It is completely disrespectful of the fundamental dignity of the human person and identity. At least the doctrine of eternal hell, whether one believes in it or not, respects the importance of who we are and what we do in our lives.
            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by robrecht View Post
              I too object to belief in reincarnation. It is completely disrespectful of the fundamental dignity of the human person and identity. At least the doctrine of eternal hell, whether one believes in it or not, respects the importance of who we are and what we do in our lives.
              I do not consider the doctrine of eternal hell respectful of the importance(?) of who we are and what we do in our lives. In Christianity the doctrine of hell is contingent on complying with specific religious beliefs and sometimes complying with specific rituals. It does not take into consideration the diverse nature of human belief and the responsibility for the nature of human belief and actions.

              I object to the egoistic view of reincarnation as with the egoistic view of salvation, and who would be condemned to hell and who is destined for the good life in heaven, whatever that is. Some form of Reincarnation is possibly, but like heaven and hell in any form it is very much speculative.
              Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-19-2016, 01:42 PM.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                I do not consider the doctrine of eternal hell respectful of the importance(?) of who we are and what we do in our lives. In Christianity the doctrine of hell is contingent on complying with specific religious beliefs and sometimes complying with specific rituals. It does not take into consideration the diverse nature of human belief and the responsibility for the nature of human belief and actions.

                I object to the egoistic view of reincarnation as with the egoistic view of salvation, and who would be condemned to hell and who is destined for the good life in heaven, whatever that is. Some form of Reincarnation is possibly, but like heaven and hell in any form it is very much speculative.
                I am merely alluding to the importance and eternal significance of who we are and what we do from the perspective of God. I trust that God is in no way limited in his wisdom and judgment by limited views of "complying with specific religious beliefs and sometimes complying with specific rituals." I am sure that God certainly does "take into consideration the diverse nature of human belief and the responsibility for the nature of human belief and actions."
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                  At least the doctrine of eternal hell, whether one believes in it or not, respects the importance of who we are and what we do in our lives.
                  I don't think one model wins over the other. Both have repugnant characteristics, which would be interesting to discuss here.

                  BTW, what do you think of these kids with weird recalls?

                  https://youtu.be/Uk7biSOzr1k

                  I view it the same as I view alleged demonic phenomena, but I wonder if it's reasonable to doubt both phenomena.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by whag View Post
                    I don't think one model wins over the other. Both have repugnant characteristics, which would be interesting to discuss here.
                    I avoid the repugnant characteristics of both models and just trust that God can sort everything out much better than I can.

                    Originally posted by whag View Post
                    BTW, what do you think of these kids with weird recalls?

                    https://youtu.be/Uk7biSOzr1k
                    No idea. Power of suggestion and incredible imaginations of young children? But, in the end, who knows?

                    Originally posted by whag View Post
                    I view it the same as I view alleged demonic phenomena, but I wonder if it's reasonable to doubt both phenomena.
                    I've known a couple of exorcists and both of them told me its best by far to avoid dwelling on the paranormal or demonic. Just live your life, love others, trust God, and do your best.
                    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                      I avoid the repugnant characteristics of both models and just trust that God can sort everything out much better than I can.

                      No idea. Power of suggestion and incredible imaginations of young children? But, in the end, who knows?

                      I've known a couple of exorcists and both of them told me its best by far to avoid dwelling on the paranormal or demonic. Just live your life, love others, trust God, and do your best.
                      You believe that demons interact with human beings? Discussing it doesn't necessarily mean dwelling on it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by whag View Post
                        You believe that demons interact with human beings? Discussing it doesn't necessarily mean dwelling on it.
                        I don't really know about that kind of stuff.
                        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                          I am merely alluding to the importance and eternal significance of who we are and what we do from the perspective of God. I trust that God is in no way limited in his wisdom and judgment by limited views of "complying with specific religious beliefs and sometimes complying with specific rituals." I am sure that God certainly does "take into consideration the diverse nature of human belief and the responsibility for the nature of human belief and actions."
                          Merely alluding is insufficient. I would be willing to accept I trust that God is in no way limited in his wisdom and judgment by limited views of "complying with specific religious beliefs and sometimes complying with specific rituals." I am sure that God certainly does "take into consideration the diverse nature of human belief and the responsibility for the nature of human belief and actions." Unfortunately this eliminates the possible of the existence of Hell as it is believed in pretty much all the different religious perspectives, such as Celtic, Nordic, Germanic, Christian and other belief sysems. In all these belief systems the concept of Hell is permanent condition or place of unimaginable suffering, because one dies without achieving nor complying to religious obligation or behavior.

                          Personally I believe the concept of Hell remains an ancient superstitious belief with the purpose of social control based on fear.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            Merely alluding is insufficient.
                            Insufficient in what way?

                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            I would be willing to accept I trust that God is in no way limited in his wisdom and judgment by limited views of "complying with specific religious beliefs and sometimes complying with specific rituals." I am sure that God certainly does "take into consideration the diverse nature of human belief and the responsibility for the nature of human belief and actions." Unfortunately this eliminates the possible [possibility] of the existence of Hell as it is believed in pretty much all the different religious perspectives, such as Celtic, Nordic, Germanic, Christian and other belief sys[t]ems. In all these belief systems the concept of Hell is permanent condition or place of unimaginable suffering, because one dies without achieving nor complying to religious obligation or behavior.
                            Perhaps you should better acquaint yourself with the ancient Jewish idea of purgatory, in which it seems Jesus also believed.

                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            Personally I believe the concept of Hell remains an ancient superstitious belief with the purpose of social control based on fear.
                            Do you think Jesus was trying to exercise social control over people?
                            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                              Perhaps you should better acquaint yourself with the ancient Jewish idea of purgatory, in which it seems Jesus also believed.
                              Where?
                              . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                              Comment

                              widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                              Working...
                              X