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Can Science and Christianity be compatible? LPoT vs SoR. Also open to others.

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  • Can Science and Christianity be compatible? LPoT vs SoR. Also open to others.

    Some two weeks ago, lilpixieofterror and I had an argument in the course of which, we both decided to have a debate. Well, actually, she was talking smack that I can't refute her (and bunch of other garbage claims) and I offered her the chance to prove that by having a debate. The topic was of her choosing and she decided that debating whether science and Christianity can be reconciled was the topic she wanted to cover.

    It's been one thing after the other to find out when this debate was going to happen or if it was going to happen at all. So I decided to make this thread so you can all discuss the topic your selves, with a catch.

    I will be responding to lilpixieofterror and only lilpixieofterror in this thread. Do not reply to me expecting me to write back, because I won't. If lilpixeofterror wishes to respond to other poster then that is her choice. You can talk amongst each other, but please do not try to derail this thread if you can do that - though I've come not expect people to behave themselves on this site. We will not kick anyone out though under any circumstances, so consider this a free for all

    So the topic is: Can science and Christianity be compatible?

    Crystal, if our discussion goes off the rails then so be it.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
    Some two weeks ago, lilpixieofterror and I had an argument in the course of which, we both decided to have a debate. Well, actually, she was talking smack that I can't refute her (and bunch of other garbage claims) and I offered her the chance to prove that by having a debate. The topic was of her choosing and she decided that debating whether science and Christianity can be reconciled was the topic she wanted to cover.

    It's been one thing after the other to find out when this debate was going to happen or if it was going to happen at all. So I decided to make this thread so you can all discuss the topic your selves, with a catch.

    I will be responding to lilpixieofterror and only lilpixieofterror in this thread. Do not reply to me expecting me to write back, because I won't. If lilpixeofterror wishes to respond to other poster then that is her choice. You can talk amongst each other, but please do not try to derail this thread if you can do that - though I've come not expect people to behave themselves on this site. We will not kick anyone out though under any circumstances, so consider this a free for all

    So the topic is: Can science and Christianity be compatible?

    Crystal, if our discussion goes off the rails then so be it.
    Is this going to be a formalized debate, with two opening posts, a series of replies and final statements. Or is it a loose discussion?

    Comment


    • #3
      Kinda both.

      The main purpose is for LPoT and I to discuss this topic but others can talk amongst themselves.

      Comment


      • #4
        Interesting. Even as an outspoken atheist, I would say that the answer to the question, "Can science and Christianity be compatible?" is rather obviously, "Yes." It seems LPoT has the easier task in this debate. I'll be interested to see how SoR approaches the topic.
        "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
        --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
          Kinda both.

          The main purpose is for LPoT and I to discuss this topic but others can talk amongst themselves.
          Wouldn't it be more productive if you started up the discussion with actual problems that you'd see with such a compatibility. Otherwise I'm not really sure what Little Pixie of Terror is obligated to do for her opening, other than make some general remarks on the effects of the Christian culture and the Church, on the enterprise of science, and end off shortly be declaring that there's no conflict. Its pretty hard to prove a negative.

          So I'd say you should demonstrate that there's is in fact, compatibility issues. And at least define the scope of that. Is it sufficient to demonstrate that Christianity and Science in general merely can be compatible, which seems a fairly easy thing to defend, and I have no idea how you'd argue that they're not.

          Or that there's been many practical, historical problems between Christianity and Science?

          Creation Science would be a topic to go for in that category, and you could make reasonable case that certain subgroups of Christians have issues with science, but this topic its fairly recent in history though. You could try for a Christians killed science in Rome, or the more reasonable Christians were indifferent to the preservation of Roman and Greek texts, and so were indirectly the cause of the loss of generations of acquired knowledge. Though I'm not sure what the strength of that would be. You could try to argue that Christianity has been against curiosity, which would be interesting, because that is something condemned by Church Fathers and many saints, and the question would fall on whether this is scientific curiosity, or the kind of curiosity that drive people to step closer to an accident to see the gore.

          There's plenty of topics to dig into, but its probably up to you to start.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
            Interesting. Even as an outspoken atheist, I would say that the answer to the question, "Can science and Christianity be compatible?" is rather obviously, "Yes." It seems LPoT has the easier task in this debate. I'll be interested to see how SoR approaches the topic.
            Pretty much. It seems that SoR will have to take a relatively small subset of Christians and try to portray their views as typical.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Pretty much. It seems that SoR will have to take a relatively small subset of Christians and try to portray their views as typical.
              Not unless LPoT can represent the typical view. Shouldn't be that hard.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                Interesting. Even as an outspoken atheist, I would say that the answer to the question, "Can science and Christianity be compatible?" is rather obviously, "Yes." It seems LPoT has the easier task in this debate. I'll be interested to see how SoR approaches the topic.
                Well this should be interesting. I don't think science and Christianity can be reconciled at all. Falsifiable hypotheses lie at the core of science whereas belief in divine revelation is at the core of Christianity...i.e. two incompatible views of knowledge.
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • #9
                  My view:

                  (1) When we talk about compatibility or conflict, do we mean science as a methodology or the mainstream consensus in fields at the present time? Can there be compatibility now but conflict in the future, or vice versa?

                  (2) If you map the number of conflicts between science and religion over the last say 600 years, then, if there is some kind of fundamental conflict with science, you would expect the number of conflicts to increase as our knowledge of science increases. But you don't see that. If you map them on a graph in increments of 25 years, then in the last 25 years, there have been a handful of conflicts. In the 25 years before that, it is about the same. Similarly in the 25 years before that, and so on. Conflicts are just the odd blip. There is no escalating pattern, which you would expect as our knowledge of science grows if there was conflict. Even then, most conflicts with science in the past have been resolved as issues within Christianity. IMO that graphical approach is pretty powerful evidence that science and Christianity is compatible.
                  Last edited by GakuseiDon; 07-06-2015, 07:18 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    Well this should be interesting. I don't think science and Christianity can be reconciled at all. Falsifiable hypotheses lie at the core of science whereas belief in divine revelation is at the core of Christianity...i.e. two incompatible views of knowledge.
                    Well Tass, that would assume that everything that is true or possibly true must be open to falsification. And that is an unfounded claim.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Well Tass, that would assume that everything that is true or possibly true must be open to falsification. And that is an unfounded claim.
                      Not as far as science is concerned. Falsification is limited to the physical existence.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It makes sense for SoR to go second. Before the possibility of contradiction can be established, the two possibly contradictory views much be made available.

                        If SoR went first he'd have nothing concrete to argue, because of the differences among believers.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          Not as far as science is concerned.
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          Falsification is limited to the physical existence.
                          These two sentences are contradictory. If falsification as used in the scientific method is limited to the physical, then science has nothing to say about "everything that is true or possibly true must be open to falsification."
                          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                            These two sentences are contradictory. If falsification as used in the scientific method is limited to the physical, then science has nothing to say about "everything that is true or possibly true must be open to falsification."
                            The above is confusing, because not 'everything that is true or possibly must be open to falsification,'

                            IT is an accepted fact that in the scientific method is limited to the physical existence. No possible theory nor hypothesis has ever been successfully proposed for anything beyond the physical existence.
                            Last edited by shunyadragon; 07-06-2015, 05:48 PM.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If I do not get an opening from lilpixieofterror by tomorrow then I'm not going to bother wasting my time anymore on this - it's been over two weeks now .

                              Comment

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