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The relationship between religions and the Baha'i Faith, and reasons to believe.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sen McGlinn View Post
    I find that unfriendly, uncollegial ... indeed, unBahai. What would Abdu'l-Baha say?
    Posting consistently OFF TOPIC posts warrants this exclusion. Again, he is free to start a thread to express his beliefs and issues he wishes to address. Technically you also posted OFF TOPIC, which is the reason I started this thread to address your particular issues which were OFF TOPIC in the previous thread.

    This has happened before with robrecht, and no limping dog act will help the case. NONE of robrecht's post, nor your post addressed the topic of the thread. This commonly called derailing or pirating a thread for one's own agenda that is OFF TOPIC

    I will address the rest of this post in another post, likely more than one.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-23-2015, 04:50 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      I never judged any religion as totally false or condemned as many of other religions consider those who believe differently. Again I am debated individual issues concerning the reason I believe in the Baha'i Faith.
      Thread after thread you've done nothing but malign Christianity, and Islam and to some degree Judaism, having called them archaic, and outdated. I don't believe I've ever heard you say one positive thing about Christianity.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        No, I have never taken this as an assertion, nor 'that we can take this as a given.'

        I am more interested in how a world view functions in the real world not what a religion claims. As far as I am concerned the Baha'i Faith, and the Humanist (Unitarian, Agnostic/atheist) function well in the real world when dealing with universal concerns of humanity. Ancient world views like Judaism, Christianity and Islam do not. They make many anecdotal claims as to how they are trying, should function or want to function in terms of the universal concerns of humanity, but they fail for various reasons addressed in this thread.

        The primary focus of this thread is comparing the Baha'i Faith and other religions is how they function where the rubber meets the road, reality in the real world. Siam and others make many claims, but I focus on the bottom line.
        Edited by a Moderator
        Last edited by Bill the Cat; 06-25-2015, 10:20 AM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Adrift View Post
          Thread after thread you've done nothing but malign Christianity, and Islam and to some degree Judaism, having called them archaic, and outdated. I don't believe I've ever heard you say one positive thing about Christianity.
          False,
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            False,
            You've never said that Christianity, Islam and Judaism is archaic and outdated? You regularly say positive things about Christianity? Really shunyadragon?

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Adrift View Post
              You've never said that Christianity, Islam and Judaism is archaic and outdated? You regularly say positive things about Christianity? Really shunyadragon?
              Yes, that is what I believe. I have said that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are Revelations form God for the time in which they were revealed, No religion including the Baha'i Faith represent the only religion for all time. In the future another Revealed religion will continue the evolving changing Revelation form God.

              By the way I have not heard anything positive from you nor most other Christians on the site concerning Islam.
              Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-23-2015, 09:51 PM.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Yes, that is what I believe. I have said that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are Revelations form God for the time in which they were revealed, No religion including the Baha'i Faith represent the only religion for all time. In the future another Revealed religion will continue the evolving changing Revelation form God.
                You have said much much more than that shunya, and you know it.

                Going over just a small handful of your previous posts you've stated that Judaism, Christianity and Islam "fail" in this thread (post #79). You repeat this about Judaism and Christianity in this thread (post #170) because they hold onto ancient worldviews. In this thread (post #39) you called Christianity barbaric. In this thread you claimed that Christianity and Islam are anti-semitic. In this thread you've accused non-Bahai religions of being simplistic and egocentric. In this thread you denounced Christianity Judaism and Islam for being anchored and mired in an archaic past (post #95).

                And this goes on and on and on. I was just looking for the first few hits of posts where you mention Islam, Christianity and Judaism. If I narrowed the search to just Christianity the number of examples where you've exhibited triumphalism would be impossible to list. I honestly don't care if you think your worldview is better than another's. We all do, or else we wouldn't hold the worldviews that we do, but if you don't think you take an aggressively negative approach to other religions, you're in denial.

                By the way I have not heard anything positive from you nor most other Christians on the site concerning Islam.
                It's a Christian forum. Islam rarely comes up as often as Christianity does. But in the case that you need proof that I've said positive things about Islam I'll direct you to this thread where I had a very pleasant conversation with our local Muslim, Siam:

                http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...-to-this-forum

                And this thread, where I defended the idea that Muslims may worship the same God as Christians do:

                http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...p-the-same-God

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                  You have said much much more than that shunya, and you know it.

                  Going over just a small handful of your previous posts you've stated that Judaism, Christianity and Islam "fail" in this thread (post #79). You repeat this about Judaism and Christianity in this thread (post #170) because they hold onto ancient worldviews. In this thread (post #39) you called Christianity barbaric. In this thread you claimed that Christianity and Islam are anti-semitic. In this thread you've accused non-Bahai religions of being simplistic and egocentric. In this thread you denounced Christianity Judaism and Islam for being anchored and mired in an archaic past (post #95).

                  And this goes on and on and on. I was just looking for the first few hits of posts where you mention Islam, Christianity and Judaism. If I narrowed the search to just Christianity the number of examples where you've exhibited triumphalism would be impossible to list. I honestly don't care if you think your worldview is better than another's. We all do, or else we wouldn't hold the worldviews that we do, but if you don't think you take an aggressively negative approach to other religions, you're in denial.
                  Not in denial at all there is much I debate and disagree with Christians, and pursue those debates, no problem. Yes, I do believe Judaism, Christianity and Islam as anchored and mired in the ancient past, and debate those issues where I feel this is the case.



                  It's a Christian forum. Islam rarely comes up as often as Christianity does. But in the case that you need proof that I've said positive things about Islam I'll direct you to this thread where I had a very pleasant conversation with our local Muslim, Siam:

                  http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...-to-this-forum

                  And this thread, where I defended the idea that Muslims may worship the same God as Christians do:

                  http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...p-the-same-God
                  Pleasant conversations and 'May' worship the same God is not much of a complement. I acknowledge that Muslims do worship the same God and Muhammad is a prophet of God.
                  Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-24-2015, 12:27 PM.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                    Source: Baha'u'llah



                    He is God – Exalted be He, the Lord of Majesty and Power!

                    I plead my grief and sorrow unto God, the Lord of all humankind. The affairs of men have been shaken, the nations have become perturbed and Islam has been weakened thereby. The enemies have afflicted it from all sides and it remains encompassed by them. Thus it behooveth the people of God to invoke Him in the morning and the night-season, to beseech Him to graciously aid the Muslims, one and all, to do that which is pleasing and seemly, to exalt them by His Command and through the power of His Sovereign Might, to make them aware of that which will exalt their stations, to change their abasement into might, their poverty into wealth, their destruction into advancement, their distress into peace of mind and their fear into security and tranquility. Verily, He is the All-Merciful. There is none other God but Him, the Compassionate, All-Bountiful.

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    Good citation, but does not address the real issues at hand.
                    I thought that you didn't believe in a personal God? That he is just some "source?"

                    Your quote from Baha'u'llah shows that he and the Baha'i faith believe God is personal and active in the world.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      I thought that you didn't believe in a personal God? That he is just some "source?"

                      Your quote from Baha'u'llah shows that he and the Baha'i faith believe God is personal and active in the world.
                      I'm pretty sure Shunya just picks what he likes from the buffet.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sen McGlinn View Post

                        Perhaps you will enlighten me, and other readers, by showing us where the Bahai scriptures speak of a World Order replacing other religions. In decades of diligent study I have never found the verses that say that. ]/quote]

                        Never is tough word to back up. Your own citations support the Baha'i Faith becoming the dominant faith of the world. I did not put a time frame on the transformation could be thousands of years, but nonetheless the transformation will take place in the future despite your misinformed assertion.

                        Rather, the new religion transforms the world, and the old religions are transformed, but not obliterated. Not for thousands of years. Abdu’l-Baha says:



                        and in another place:


                        Not only do the past religions still have their share of the Spirit, their institutions still have a future, although they like all other social institutions have to adapt to a globalising world and a postmodern society. Shoghi Effendi writes:



                        In The Secret of Divine Civilization, Abdu’l-Baha proposes not just ways to revive the fortunes of Iran and bring peace, but also ways to revive the Faith of God there (Shi’ah Islam) through a Reformation analogous to that instituted by Luther:


                        There and in A Traveller’s Narrative he argues for religious tolerance, so that people of all religions can live side by side.

                        It seems that Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi look forward to a revival of Christianity, Islam and other religions, which, because they rediscover the universal in their own teachings, will learn to work together. I do not know anywhere where they look forward to the extinction of other religions.

                        Baha'u'llah's prayer for Islam does seem relevant to me. I'm sorry you don't see it.
                        I see it, and it is relevant to the world, not just you.

                        Never is tough word to back up. Your own citations support the Baha'i Faith becoming the dominant faith of the world. I did not put a time frame on the transformation could be thousands of years, but nonetheless the transformation will take place in the future despite your misinformed assertion.

                        Misrepresentation - I was never opposed to the eternal core truths of ALL the religions of the world, nor did I say they would be obliterated in any way. The religions of the world will indeed co-exist with the Baha'i Faith for thousands of years. I do not disagree with your references.

                        I do debate issues of ancient religions, but that is way I debate, and in no way in conflict with the Baha'i teachings.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          I thought that you didn't believe in a personal God? That he is just some "source?"
                          Misrepresentation - I have said that God IS THE SOURCE of all existence some call God(s)

                          Your quote from Baha'u'llah shows that he and the Baha'i faith believe God is personal and active in the world.
                          Yes, being the 'Source' of all existence God is personally involved with all of Creation, and ALL religions and ALL of Humanity, not just 'personally' involved with one church or religion.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I fully acknowledge Mohammad as a prophet of God as I likewise believe that Judaism and Christianity represent Revelations from God, and do not consider Islam a religion of violence in its fundamental nature. Like Judaism and Christianity I consider Islam a religion of the past and not meeting the needs to provide adequate spiritual guidance to the modern world. It is naďve to believe that Judaism and Christianity accepts Islam as a Revelation from God now or at anytime in the past.

                            I believe that the Baha'i Faith does provide better guidance for the modern world then ancient religions. That is one of the primary reasons for believing in the Baha'i Faith. In reality it is one of the reasons that anyone believes in any one religion over other possible choices. It is not boosterism nor triumphalism to believe this and debate the issues that support this belief.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Moderated By: Zymologist


                              Moved thread per OP's request.

                              ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
                              Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

                              I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                I'm pretty sure Shunya just picks what he likes from the buffet.
                                I missed this one! Actually my personal preference from the buffet is loosey goosey Unitarian Universalism where I can simply rely on humanism as my faith.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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