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The Inner Life: Beyond Science?

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  • The Inner Life: Beyond Science?

    If there something about the human person that is beyond scientific understanding? Beyond the ability to be reduced to mechanics? I say yes, call it the mind body problem, or the hard problem of consciousness, I suggest that a man's inner life, his subjective experience of the world is such a reality. What is it like to be seer? Do I feel pain exactly like you? When I see the color blue do I see the exact same shade as you? Do I feel heartache or joy the exact same way as you? How can you know? How could this, even in principle, ever be known scientifically? Look at it another way - I did my best to care for my mother in her last years. Did I do that out of love or because I didn't want her to sign her insurance policy over to some one else? Can you ever really know my motivation? And if there is some aspect of the human person that can not be reduced to a purely materialistic explanation then does that not bode badly for materialism?

    And interesting take on this comes from the atheist philosopher Thomas Nagel.

    http://organizations.utep.edu/Portal.../nagel_bat.pdf
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Do you know the difference between objective reality and subjectivity from personal experience?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sea of red View Post
      Do you know the difference between objective reality and subjectivity from personal experience?
      I know that all objective reality is subjectively known.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        I know that all objective reality is subjectively known.
        Why would the bag of chemical reactions that you're talking to know the difference? It's just chemical reactions in his brain, right?
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          And if there is some aspect of the human person that can not be reduced to a purely materialistic explanation then does that not bode badly for materialism?
          No, because "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable response. Just because we don't currently have an explanation for it now doesn't mean we won't find an explanation for it someday. The wrong approach for a materialist is to always provide an answer, regardless of whether the answer is supported by the evidence in nature. The correct approach is to try to find the answer. The lack of an answer is a problem for everybody, be they materialist, religious, or other (like me).
          Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Why would the bag of chemical reactions that you're talking to know the difference? It's just chemical reactions in his brain, right?
            Right - thinking chemicals - who knew that chemicals could think!
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
              No, because "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable response. Just because we don't currently have an explanation for it now doesn't mean we won't find an explanation for it someday. The wrong approach for a materialist is to always provide an answer, regardless of whether the answer is supported by the evidence in nature. The correct approach is to try to find the answer. The lack of an answer is a problem for everybody, be they materialist, religious, or other (like me).
              So you have faith that that science can one day know my inner life?
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                So you have faith that that science can one day know my inner life?
                On the contrary. Note what's listed for my faith.
                Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Yttrium View Post
                  On the contrary. Note what's listed for my faith.
                  No your faith that science can answer every question.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Right - thinking chemicals - who knew that chemicals could think!
                    Why do you think chemicals like alcohol alter your consciousness?
                    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                    “not all there” - you know who you are

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                      Why do you think chemicals like alcohol alter your consciousness?
                      Because alcohol can think too?
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Because alcohol can think too?
                        A lifeless chemical becomes a factor in the equation of consciousness that is each one of us. You are what you eat and drink.
                        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                        “not all there” - you know who you are

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Because alcohol can think too?
                          It messes with the hardware so that the software can't work? Like spilling soda on yer keyboard?
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                            It messes with the hardware so that the software can't work? Like spilling soda on yer keyboard?
                            What software?
                            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                            “not all there” - you know who you are

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              No your faith that science can answer every question.
                              I never implied anything of the sort. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else?
                              Middle-of-the-road swing voter. Feel free to sway my opinion.

                              Comment

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