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Moral Realism?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by robertb View Post
    Why which position holds up? Realism or the relativism you keep trying to divert to?
    No Realism. Look at my opening definition:

    Moral Realism (or Moral Objectivism) is the meta-ethical view that there exist such things as moral facts and moral values, and that these are objective and independent of our perception of them or our beliefs, feelings or other attitudes towards them. Therefore, moral judgments describe moral facts, which are as certain in their own way as mathematical facts.
    OK, key here is this line: and that these are objective and independent of our perception of them or our beliefs, feelings or other attitudes towards them

    So when you ask me about pushing the old lady into the road my answer is based on my beliefs, or upbringing. How does that moral ideal exist independently?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    • #32
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      No Realism. Look at my opening definition:



      OK, key here is this line: and that these are objective and independent of our perception of them or our beliefs, feelings or other attitudes towards them

      So when you ask me about pushing the old lady into the road my answer is based on my beliefs, or upbringing. How does that moral ideal exist independently?
      I already explained it in my first post on this thread.

      You said that you didn't understand my analogy, so I have been trying to walk you through it.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by robertb View Post
        I already explained it in my first post on this thread.

        You said that you didn't understand my analogy, so I have been trying to walk you through it.
        But you asked about my opinion on a moral question.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          But you asked about my opinion on a moral question.
          Indeed I did.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by robertb View Post
            Indeed I did.
            Right, so how does my opinion relate to an objective moral truth?
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              Right, so how does my opinion relate to an objective moral truth?
              That does seem to be your question.

              So how about that answer.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by robertb View Post
                That does seem to be your question.

                So how about that answer.
                Answer to what?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  Best explanation: morals and ethics are simply social and cultural constraints to maintain a family and community for the survival of the human species.
                  By 'morals and ethics' do you mean 'moral facts' or 'moral beliefs?' Because being able to explain moral beliefs does not undercut belief in moral facts.
                  My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    This is far to simplistic to be real. First, the nature of our physical existence is simply exists as it is regardless of how different philosophies 'imagine' it is. Second, other views such as; Immanent Realism, Conceptualism and Nominalism are possible.
                    Nominalism in regards to moral facts is the same as moral nihilism or moral non-cognitivism, and so clearly are not examples of non-theistic accounts of moral facts. Conceptualism in regards to moral facts is the same as moral subjectivism, according to which, there are no moral facts. Immanent realism is simply the position that some universals exist in the physical world, whereas some other universals do not, and, as anybody with more than half a brain knows, there is no fact about the physical world that can lead us to moral facts, leaving us with moral platonism.
                    My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                      Hardly.
                      Such articulate prose. The vaulting ambition of the writer. Oh, Icarus. Fly not too close to the sun lest thy waxy wings should melt.
                      My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Rational Gaze View Post
                        there is no fact about the physical world that can lead us to moral facts, leaving us with moral platonism.

                        Well then, do abstract objects actually exist? Apart from "minds?"
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Rational Gaze View Post
                          Such articulate prose. The vaulting ambition of the writer. Oh, Icarus. Fly not too close to the sun lest thy waxy wings should melt.
                          Conciseness.

                          Theism hardly entails that moral facts are grounded in God, merely that a god or gods exist.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                            Theism hardly entails that moral facts are grounded in God, merely that a god or gods exist.
                            Yes, and in theism, God is the ontological source of moral facts. Simply stating the opposite is begging the question.
                            My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Rational Gaze View Post
                              Yes, and in theism, God is the ontological source of moral facts.
                              In some forms of theism, yes, but not in all.

                              Simply stating the opposite is begging the question.
                              Nah, it's just matching your assertion with another assertion.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Recently a new member here at TWEB attack biblical ethics as being subjective, subjective to God. Which makes sense, but God's law would still be objective to mankind. He suggested or inferred that moral realism was preferable because it posed that objective moral facts actually exist;

                                Here is a definition that I think is correct:



                                The questions are, where do these moral facts exist? And how are we obligated to them if they do exist?
                                My only prior post in this thread was based upon a misunderstanding of your OP. My apologies.
                                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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