My personal experience of evangelism

[MaxVel]

If I'm reading you right, your issue is with insincerity, dishonesty and deception-by-omission in evangelism, rather than with the idea of evangelism per se?

I think Jesus wouldn't be too impressed with the kinds of sharp practices you encountered. I've always understood the 'Great Commission' to be about helping people to know Jesus as I know Him, and to choose to consciously and actively follow Him in their lives, for all their lives. That's not the kind of hing that happens if you take 'shortcuts' and rush people into a 'commitment'.

[Spartacus]

Subtitled: 'And why I don't like it.'

In my twenties I was teaching in a remote country town where I met my wife (who was a Christian). She wasn't a 'beat you over the head' kind of Christian. You knew it was her faith and she answered your questions. I was really into CS Lewis, and began over sometime to accept more and more of Christianity. I had a conversion experience on my own, and since it's intensely personal, I won't bore you with the details. Some time later we were married and both looked for ways to 'serve the Lord' more directly. I accepted a job in a Christian school in Melbourne. (Yes I know, I was never REALLY a Christian because I'm not one now.)

That didn't last long. The school was involved in a bitter internal dispute over some philosophy as to the extent Creation could be another revelation of God. Great fun. Committed Christians were tearing each other down left and right and conspiring in cadres to oust everybody else.

I resigned and we came back to teach in state schools.

We attended a local Baptist church and were very active within it. A lovely lady (since passed) was an elder and wanted very much to do the best she could for God. She used a program called 'Evangelism Explosion' and we all learnt how to 'win' souls, memorising our verses and arguments. We'd go to local families and run through our spiel and harangue people in their own homes. I remember with shame the perplexed look on most people's faces as we interrupted their precious night family time.

Over time, I got more into the 'charismatic' side of things. We joined an Assembly of God church and I rose to be a worship leader. I can vividly remember how one elder told he just KNEW I was leading by the Spirit because he got goosebumps whenever I lead the music. It was here I learned how easy it was to manipulate the feelings of the congregation. In fact, we were encouraged to do so. I was good at it. We always had an alter appeal and I watched hundreds of people whipped up into an easy emotionalism come forward. It was also here that I learned that many of the programs of the church were fraudulent. They CLAIMED to be doing one thing but were all fundamentally aimed at evangelism. People were considered 'targets' and 'scalps'. It had as much integrity as selling insurance or used cars.

I have seen this pattern repeated over and over again in various churches and organisations. Ministry X seems a good and charitable thing to do, but remember our REAL aim (which we won't tell the suckers) is to 'win' them for Jesus so I can get a merit badge in heaven.

I read and thought (yes, and prayed) more and more growing more and more dissatisfied with the dishonesty and hard sell of organised Christianity. So after much anguish I left. I no longer consider myself a Christian and none of you consider me one either.

I despise evangelism. To me it is a sign of dishonesty and manipulation. It's almost always simple minded. It demeans the Other, because it so hardly ever listens to the life experience the other person has.

The Jews (who serve the same God) have an entirely different approach. When you say to them you're considering becoming a Jew they usually respond 'Why on earth would you want to do that?' Catholics aren't bad either. They simply can't believe you'd like to be a member of their flawed club. I'm attracted to both because of that.

It would be a cheap throwaway line to say I left Christianity because of the bad behaviour of a few people. I didn't. I have deep theological and philosophical objections to much of Christian belief and practice. But I will admit to feeling vindicated on a regular basis.

We papists have this long process called RCIA for anyone who wants to join our flawed club. It's full of the most wishy-washy, watered-down catechism we can manage to scare away anyone who isn't really serious.

What you call evangelism is what I think of as proselytizing, but that's semantics. I know that a lot of evangelical charities try to offer the gospel message to all the people they serve, while Catholic charities, as you say, tend to be more surprised when someone expresses an interest in Catholicism. Catholic apologetics (that is, trying to fight off the proselytizers) is a bigger thing than Catholic evangelism, but, oddly enough, a lot of evangelicals are find themselves convinced that Catholicism is right after all. These evangelical converts have brought a lot to the Church, though I do wonder from time to time exactly how much of the evangelical mindset and experience can really find a home in Catholicism. For example, trying to qualify who is Christian or not based on whether they've had the sort of intensely personal conversion experience you alluded to, well, I think that might very well exclude me from Christianity. If I ever had an experience like that, it doesn't stick out in my memory, and that seems like the sort of thing that ought to stick out.

All that aside, thank you for sharing your story.

Also, come to the dark side. We have death cookies.

[Scrawly]

You're my favorite kind of Christian.

Uh-oh.

[Juvenal]

Cool story bro.

You're my favorite kind of Christian.

[Scrawly]

Subtitled: 'And why I don't like it.'

In my twenties I was teaching in a remote country town where I met my wife (who was a Christian). She wasn't a 'beat you over the head' kind of Christian. You knew it was her faith and she answered your questions. I was really into CS Lewis, and began over sometime to accept more and more of Christianity. I had a conversion experience on my own, and since it's intensely personal, I won't bore you with the details. Some time later we were married and both looked for ways to 'serve the Lord' more directly. I accepted a job in a Christian school in Melbourne. (Yes I know, I was never REALLY a Christian because I'm not one now.)

That didn't last long. The school was involved in a bitter internal dispute over some philosophy as to the extent Creation could be another revelation of God. Great fun. Committed Christians were tearing each other down left and right and conspiring in cadres to oust everybody else.

I resigned and we came back to teach in state schools.

We attended a local Baptist church and were very active within it. A lovely lady (since passed) was an elder and wanted very much to do the best she could for God. She used a program called 'Evangelism Explosion' and we all learnt how to 'win' souls, memorising our verses and arguments. We'd go to local families and run through our spiel and harangue people in their own homes. I remember with shame the perplexed look on most people's faces as we interrupted their precious night family time.

Over time, I got more into the 'charismatic' side of things. We joined an Assembly of God church and I rose to be a worship leader. I can vividly remember how one elder told he just KNEW I was leading by the Spirit because he got goosebumps whenever I lead the music. It was here I learned how easy it was to manipulate the feelings of the congregation. In fact, we were encouraged to do so. I was good at it. We always had an alter appeal and I watched hundreds of people whipped up into an easy emotionalism come forward. It was also here that I learned that many of the programs of the church were fraudulent. They CLAIMED to be doing one thing but were all fundamentally aimed at evangelism. People were considered 'targets' and 'scalps'. It had as much integrity as selling insurance or used cars.

I have seen this pattern repeated over and over again in various churches and organisations. Ministry X seems a good and charitable thing to do, but remember our REAL aim (which we won't tell the suckers) is to 'win' them for Jesus so I can get a merit badge in heaven.

I read and thought (yes, and prayed) more and more growing more and more dissatisfied with the dishonesty and hard sell of organised Christianity. So after much anguish I left. I no longer consider myself a Christian and none of you consider me one either.

I despise evangelism. To me it is a sign of dishonesty and manipulation. It's almost always simple minded. It demeans the Other, because it so hardly ever listens to the life experience the other person has.

The Jews (who serve the same God) have an entirely different approach. When you say to them you're considering becoming a Jew they usually respond 'Why on earth would you want to do that?' Catholics aren't bad either. They simply can't believe you'd like to be a member of their flawed club. I'm attracted to both because of that.

It would be a cheap throwaway line to say I left Christianity because of the bad behaviour of a few people. I didn't. I have deep theological and philosophical objections to much of Christian belief and practice. But I will admit to feeling vindicated on a regular basis.

Cool story bro.

[JonathanL]

I am ... unclear ... on the meaning of this.

dark side? cookies?

[pancreasman]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5959[/ATTACH]

I am ... unclear ... on the meaning of this.

[Juvenal]

09chip-600.jpg

[pancreasman]

Subtitled: 'And why I don't like it.'

In my twenties I was teaching in a remote country town where I met my wife (who was a Christian). She wasn't a 'beat you over the head' kind of Christian. You knew it was her faith and she answered your questions. I was really into CS Lewis, and began over sometime to accept more and more of Christianity. I had a conversion experience on my own, and since it's intensely personal, I won't bore you with the details. Some time later we were married and both looked for ways to 'serve the Lord' more directly. I accepted a job in a Christian school in Melbourne. (Yes I know, I was never REALLY a Christian because I'm not one now.)

That didn't last long. The school was involved in a bitter internal dispute over some philosophy as to the extent Creation could be another revelation of God. Great fun. Committed Christians were tearing each other down left and right and conspiring in cadres to oust everybody else.

I resigned and we came back to teach in state schools.

We attended a local Baptist church and were very active within it. A lovely lady (since passed) was an elder and wanted very much to do the best she could for God. She used a program called 'Evangelism Explosion' and we all learnt how to 'win' souls, memorising our verses and arguments. We'd go to local families and run through our spiel and harangue people in their own homes. I remember with shame the perplexed look on most people's faces as we interrupted their precious night family time.

Over time, I got more into the 'charismatic' side of things. We joined an Assembly of God church and I rose to be a worship leader. I can vividly remember how one elder told he just KNEW I was leading by the Spirit because he got goosebumps whenever I lead the music. It was here I learned how easy it was to manipulate the feelings of the congregation. In fact, we were encouraged to do so. I was good at it. We always had an alter appeal and I watched hundreds of people whipped up into an easy emotionalism come forward. It was also here that I learned that many of the programs of the church were fraudulent. They CLAIMED to be doing one thing but were all fundamentally aimed at evangelism. People were considered 'targets' and 'scalps'. It had as much integrity as selling insurance or used cars.

I have seen this pattern repeated over and over again in various churches and organisations. Ministry X seems a good and charitable thing to do, but remember our REAL aim (which we won't tell the suckers) is to 'win' them for Jesus so I can get a merit badge in heaven.

I read and thought (yes, and prayed) more and more growing more and more dissatisfied with the dishonesty and hard sell of organised Christianity. So after much anguish I left. I no longer consider myself a Christian and none of you consider me one either.

I despise evangelism. To me it is a sign of dishonesty and manipulation. It's almost always simple minded. It demeans the Other, because it so hardly ever listens to the life experience the other person has.

The Jews (who serve the same God) have an entirely different approach. When you say to them you're considering becoming a Jew they usually respond 'Why on earth would you want to do that?' Catholics aren't bad either. They simply can't believe you'd like to be a member of their flawed club. I'm attracted to both because of that.

It would be a cheap throwaway line to say I left Christianity because of the bad behaviour of a few people. I didn't. I have deep theological and philosophical objections to much of Christian belief and practice. But I will admit to feeling vindicated on a regular basis.