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My personal experience of evangelism

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  • MaxVel
    replied
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    I know. But it is difficult, turn-twisty reading.

    Which brings me, somehow, to an idea about masters and pupils, and evangelists:

    The source of knowledge about the universe is the universe itself. As more and more knowledge is extracted human beings have had to specialise in order that progress can continue. Without specialisation we would reach a point when the pupil would consume his entire life simply to copy his masterís knowledge. So progress, which entails a constant revision of ideas, requires the ability to condense experience and pass it on efficiently to future generations by the recruitment of more and more experts in ever more refined areas of knowledge.

    Now, contrast this process with evangelism. Evangelism is the anti-progressive conservation of magical or sacred knowledge. While it is aimed at giving people a special perspective on the world it is simultaneously a contamination in the endeavour by education to overcome the undesirable aspects of our nature and habits. It looks backwards to a fictional idyllic existence and forwards to an equally fictional cataclysm. THIS WILL NOT DO.

    You make very little sense. Your first paragraph praises the passing on of knowledge. Your second paragraph condemns it.

    You've got a massively begged question. You're not comparing apples with apples.


    In short, while on first glance your post appears eminently sensible, it's full of so much bad logic that it's worthless. THIS WILL NOT DO.

    Leave a comment:


  • firstfloor
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Nothing wrong with Robert Eisenman. He is a well respected Biblical scholar. I still read his works.
    I know. But it is difficult, turn-twisty reading.

    Which brings me, somehow, to an idea about masters and pupils, and evangelists:

    The source of knowledge about the universe is the universe itself. As more and more knowledge is extracted human beings have had to specialise in order that progress can continue. Without specialisation we would reach a point when the pupil would consume his entire life simply to copy his master’s knowledge. So progress, which entails a constant revision of ideas, requires the ability to condense experience and pass it on efficiently to future generations by the recruitment of more and more experts in ever more refined areas of knowledge.

    Now, contrast this process with evangelism. Evangelism is the anti-progressive conservation of magical or sacred knowledge. While it is aimed at giving people a special perspective on the world it is simultaneously a contamination in the endeavour by education to overcome the undesirable aspects of our nature and habits. It looks backwards to a fictional idyllic existence and forwards to an equally fictional cataclysm. THIS WILL NOT DO.
    Last edited by firstfloor; 04-26-2015, 07:22 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    Paul was a crafty one to be sure. (firstfloor is still reading Robert Eisenman)
    Nothing wrong with Robert Eisenman. He is a well respected Biblical scholar. I still read his works.

    Leave a comment:


  • firstfloor
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    T'is why Paul said Imitate me as I imitate Christ.
    Paul was a crafty one to be sure. (firstfloor is still reading Robert Eisenman)
    Last edited by firstfloor; 04-26-2015, 04:08 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Dang dude. That's a bit much, even for this forum...
    Par for the course given Starlight's claims that many Christians are evil.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tassman
    replied
    Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
    Abigail wrote. "Jesus who in turn teaches us how to love others...." You obviously have failed to learn the "how" since you never fail to not show love in your posts.
    But of course you mean this in the most loving possible way.

    This aside from your dishonesty.
    ...and this.

    Leave a comment:


  • JonathanL
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    That's one major difference between the Protestant and Catholic/Orthodox approach. Protestants tend to go for the quick conversion and admittance, then work towards understanding (I've experienced one exception to this, which involved a Hindu convert to Christianity in college). Catholic/Orthodox churches make sure the person has sufficient understanding, only then allowing admittance. Protestants tend to take the same tack in ecumenism, which is why many Orthodox take a dim view of the ecumenical movement (strangely, Catholics tend to be very Protestant-like in this area).
    As far as I'm aware most* confessional Lutheran denominations (which are the only genuine Lutherans IMO ) require you to get catechised before you're allowed to receive communion in their churches.







    *There could be exceptions, but I'm not aware of any.

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
    If I'm reading you right, your issue is with insincerity, dishonesty and deception-by-omission in evangelism, rather than with the idea of evangelism per se?

    I think Jesus wouldn't be too impressed with the kinds of sharp practices you encountered. I've always understood the 'Great Commission' to be about helping people to know Jesus as I know Him, and to choose to consciously and actively follow Him in their lives, for all their lives. That's not the kind of hing that happens if you take 'shortcuts' and rush people into a 'commitment'.
    That's one major difference between the Protestant and Catholic/Orthodox approach. Protestants tend to go for the quick conversion and admittance, then work towards understanding (I've experienced one exception to this, which involved a Hindu convert to Christianity in college). Catholic/Orthodox churches make sure the person has sufficient understanding, only then allowing admittance. Protestants tend to take the same tack in ecumenism, which is why many Orthodox take a dim view of the ecumenical movement (strangely, Catholics tend to be very Protestant-like in this area).

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
    "ivied che"

    Does that have anything to do with cookies?
    yes indeedie

    cookies.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • Juvenal
    replied
    Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
    Fine. Except ... Christians claim a special relationship with the transformative power of the Holy Spirit. There ought to be ivied che of that.
    "ivied che"

    Does that have anything to do with cookies?

    Leave a comment:


  • shunyadragon
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    You mean THAN firstfloor?
    . . . more a problem THAN the postings of firstfloor

    Leave a comment:


  • pancreasman
    replied
    Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
    For better or for worse Christians are still just human beings with all that entails.
    Fine. Except ... Christians claim a special relationship with the transformative power of the Holy Spirit. There ought to be ivied che of that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
    For better or for worse Christians are still just human beings with all that entails.
    T'is why Paul said Imitate me as I imitate Christ.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jedidiah
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Actually I find this more a problem with your postings then firstfloor.
    Sorry you see things that way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jedidiah
    replied
    Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
    What I mean is that although some Christians are attractive exemplars of their faith, I find them to be no more numerous than exemplary Buddhists, atheists, Hindus, and so on. I think it has more to do with spiritual development (see my other thread about this) than it does to the actual content of any particular faith.
    For better or for worse Christians are still just human beings with all that entails.

    Leave a comment:

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