My personal experience of evangelism

[firstfloor]

First Floor, at this point you are generating more heat than light in this thread (and I think you're doing it provocatively). As OP I'm going to ask you not to post anymore.

Done. I will impersonate a church mouse.

[Darth Executor]

firstfloor is my favorite tweb atheist

[pancreasman]

First Floor, at this point you are generating more heat than light in this thread (and I think you're doing it provocatively). As OP I'm going to ask you not to post anymore.

[shunyadragon]

You make very little sense. Your first paragraph praises the passing on of knowledge. Your second paragraph condemns it.

You've got a massively begged question. You're not comparing apples with apples.


In short, while on first glance your post appears eminently sensible, it's full of so much bad logic that it's worthless. THIS WILL NOT DO.

I understand him very well even, though I may not totally agree with him. It depends on what knowledge is being passed on and how. He believes the passing on the knowledge of science in the manner it does. He does not approve of how knowledge is sometimes passed on in Christianity, particularly evangelism which depends heavily depends heavily on an emotional connection to the knowledge.

[Cow Poke]

It has nothing to do with congregations. The offer contained in the Christian message is much more serious than, say, the offer of a cheese that you might enjoy. What do you think happens to a person if he is shown the ‘way’ and then withholds his love, devotion and obedience?

We put them on our prayer list.

[Cow Poke]

Another very serious problem for evangelists is that they are either acting out of fear of being punished for leaving lost souls behind

Wow, in over 40 years of evangelism, I have never encountered THAT "logic" before. That's just dumb.

or they are exploiting other people’s fear of damnation.

I have never EVER had to exploit somebody's fears of damnation or anything else - I have offered the love and peace of Christ.

To put it crudely they are either cowards or charlatans.

Well, that's not only crudely put, but is a steaming pile of horsie poo.

[firstfloor]

Don't feed the .

“My Lord God, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me. I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think that I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you. And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing. I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire. And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road though I may know nothing about it. Therefore will I trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death. I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.”
― Thomas Merton, Thoughts in Solitude

[firstfloor]

Can you name the exact congregation you have in mind so that I know to avoid them? In the 25 years I've been an orthodox Christian, I've never ever seen any evangelists evangelize out of fear or punishment. Ever. That idea is so alien and non-representational of the reality that I've witnessed personally, that I can't help but think you're assuming this based on some sort of odd media-driven stereotype of some sort.

It has nothing to do with congregations. The offer contained in the Christian message is much more serious than, say, the offer of a cheese that you might enjoy. What do you think happens to a person if he is shown the ‘way’ and then withholds his love, devotion and obedience?

Nearly May, snow?!!? Altitude all of 95m!

[JonathanL]

Can you name the exact congregation you have in mind so that I know to avoid them? In the 25 years I've been an orthodox Christian, I've never ever seen any evangelists evangelize out of fear or punishment. Ever. That idea is so alien and non-representational of the reality that I've witnessed personally, that I can't help but think you're assuming this based on some sort of odd media-driven stereotype of some sort.

Don't feed the .

[Adrift]

Ah! Some improvement then.

Another very serious problem for evangelists is that they are either acting out of fear of being punished for leaving lost souls behind or they are exploiting other people’s fear of damnation. To put it crudely they are either cowards or charlatans.

Can you name the exact congregation you have in mind so that I know to avoid them? In the 25 years I've been an orthodox Christian, I've never ever seen any evangelists evangelize out of fear or punishment. Ever. That idea is so alien and non-representational of the reality that I've witnessed personally, that I can't help but think you're assuming this based on some sort of odd media-driven stereotype of some sort.

[firstfloor]

You make very little sense.

Ah! Some improvement then.

Another very serious problem for evangelists is that they are either acting out of fear of being punished for leaving lost souls behind or they are exploiting other people’s fear of damnation. To put it crudely they are either cowards or charlatans.

[Adrift]

That's one major difference between the Protestant and Catholic/Orthodox approach. Protestants tend to go for the quick conversion and admittance, then work towards understanding (I've experienced one exception to this, which involved a Hindu convert to Christianity in college). Catholic/Orthodox churches make sure the person has sufficient understanding, only then allowing admittance. Protestants tend to take the same tack in ecumenism, which is why many Orthodox take a dim view of the ecumenical movement (strangely, Catholics tend to be very Protestant-like in this area).

This method of conversion in the Catholic and Orthodox church may count towards why those denominations are shrinking, and why Islam (in the Northern hemisphere) and Protestantism (in the Southern hemisphere) are filling in the gap.

[Paprika]

Wait ... you're saying Darthie acting evil is on par with Starlight saying some Christians are evil? That's seriously twisted.

I approve.

I'm saying Darth's attacks are on par with Starlight's.

[Juvenal]

Par for the course given Starlight's claims that many Christians are evil.

Wait ... you're saying Darthie acting evil is on par with Starlight saying some Christians are evil? That's seriously twisted.

I approve.

[MaxVel]

Now, now, if you can, keep it exploratory rather than accusatory.

I accuse you of exploring! Fie upon you, explorer!


I'd also like to talk about something I observed growing up. On some evenings, while people were ding their late shopping, a small group of guys would hang out on one busy corner. One would produce a Bible and proceed to harangue the world in general (passers-by, anyone who happened to be in earshot) in a loud voice, with passages from the Bible and comments like 'You are a sinner, and God will judge you. Repent and come to Jesus.' The others would kind of loiter around, perhaps hoping to talk to anyone interested. i never saw anyone who was interested. The manner, tone and content of the 'presentation' was judgmental and negative.

However, they were evangelising, right? And lives were changed, surprisingly enough....






... the people that used to pass that corner regularly found other ways to go to their destinations, or walked on the far side of the street.


Perhaps that's the kind of evangelisation you dislike, Pancreasman. I know I never liked it, even more so when I became a Christian (through no fault of theirs).


Thing is, people are people, with all their faults and flaws. It's not easy to form real relationships with others and share the goodness you've found. It's much easier (practically and psychologically) to just talk at someone, or use a system or method that 'works' - and then you can tell yourself that you've done your duty. This s not an excuse,but it is a explanation as to why Christians too often fail in this area.

Somewhere I think you mentioned being disappointed with how little different Christians seem to be from ordinary people. I think Jesus probably feels the same way. But I do know that being a Christian has made a huge difference in my own life, and really changed me as a person, for the better, in so many ways. I think the problem is that we change at the speed that, and to the extent that, we allow God to work in us. So some may hardly change at all, and some may change, but slowly.

GK Chesterton said:

“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.”