Announcement

Collapse

Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Matthew 12:40 an idiom?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by rstrats View Post
    Since it's been a couple of years, perhaps there maybe someone new visiting this topic who might know of examples.
    Dontcha ever give up???!!!

    Comment


    • rstrats, if "x days and x nights" is not idiomatic, but just an accurate counting of (at least partial) daytimes and (at least partial) nighttimes, then why does it seem to always have an equal number of days and nights, as opposed to the stated number of nights being one more or one less than the stated number of days? With a uniform random distribution, an unequal count should be twice as common as an equal count. But are there any unequal examples? Surely you can give us some examples?

      Comment


      • Faber,
        re: "Dontcha ever give up???!!!"

        Not as long as there is a possibility of new folks visiting this topic.

        Comment


        • Joel,
          re: "rstrats, if 'x days and x nights'I is not idiomatic, but just an accurate counting of (at least partial) daytimes and (at least partial) nighttimes, then why does it seem to always have an equal number of days and nights, as opposed to the stated number of nights being one more or one less than the stated number of days? With a uniform random distribution, an unequal count should be twice as common as an equal count. But are there any unequal examples? Surely you can give us some examples?

          If I knew of any examples I wouldn't have had any reason for starting this topic.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rstrats View Post
            Joel,
            re: "rstrats, if 'x days and x nights'I is not idiomatic, but just an accurate counting of (at least partial) daytimes and (at least partial) nighttimes, then why does it seem to always have an equal number of days and nights, as opposed to the stated number of nights being one more or one less than the stated number of days? With a uniform random distribution, an unequal count should be twice as common as an equal count. But are there any unequal examples? Surely you can give us some examples?

            If I knew of any examples I wouldn't have had any reason for starting this topic.
            So then you must think that idiomatic and non-idiomatic are equally likely, since you have no examples for either side?
            Do you equally insist on examples from supporters of the non-idiomatic position? Why do we see you only asking for examples on one side?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rstrats View Post
              Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a common Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone (who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" means the tomb) knows of any writing that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of each one of the specific number of days and at least parts of each one of the specific number of nights?
              If so (that it was a Jewish way of counting any part of the as a whole day), Jesus could not still fulfill the prophecy because Jesus was only in the tomb on according to Matthew 27:57 Friday EVENING which is according to Jews the start of Saturday and hence Jesus was only in the tomb Saturday and Sunday.

              https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/27-57.htm

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                If so (that it was a Jewish way of counting any part of the as a whole day), Jesus could not still fulfill the prophecy because Jesus was only in the tomb on according to Matthew 27:57 Friday EVENING which is according to Jews the start of Saturday and hence Jesus was only in the tomb Saturday and Sunday.

                https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/27-57.htm
                Evening isn't the start of a day in the Jewish reckoning; Sundown is. "Evening" is a vague term and can refer to times before and after sundown.

                There are two additional reasons we know this was prior to sundown (and thus still on Friday according to Jewish reckoning). First, shortly afterwards it says in Matthew 27:62, that the "next day" was "the day after Preparation Day" (i.e. the Sabbath). Thus, the burial would have happened the day before, in order for the Sabbath to be the next day. Second, Joseph of Aramathea was a member of the Council (Mark 15:43, Luke 23:50) and therefore Jewish, and a Jew would avoid work on the Sabbath, meaning he would have made sure to do the burial before the Sabbath started.
                Last edited by Terraceth; 11-12-2019, 09:06 PM.

                Comment


                • Joel,

                  When I responded to your post #152 I must have been having a bad cognitive day because when you asked for examples I somehow read that as examples with regard to the examples that I was requesting. However, in rereading your post, I see that you were asking for something else, i.e., unequal examples. And to be honest, I really don't understand what your post was saying.



                  re: "Why do we see you only asking for examples on one side?"

                  Because for the purpose of this topic that is the only side that is of concern.

                  1. The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth".

                  2. There are some who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

                  3. And of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when His spirit left His body).

                  4. However, a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.

                  5. To account for the lack of a 3rd night, there may be some of those mentioned above who try to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language.

                  6. I'm simply curious if anyone who may fall in the above group of believers might provide examples to support the belief of commonality; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred.
                  Last edited by rstrats; 11-26-2019, 08:26 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

                    Comment


                    • Making your yearly rounds to all of the websites you spam this on again? rstrats, we nipped this in the bud all the way back in 2016. The answer I gave you in post #123 is all there is. You promised to stop posting about it after I gave you the answer.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        Making your yearly rounds to all of the websites you spam this on again? rstrats, we nipped this in the bud all the way back in 2016. The answer I gave you in post #123 is all there is. You promised to stop posting about it after I gave you the answer.
                        He never did promise to close the thread, merely admitted that it was possible to ask to have that done. He also never promised to use the quote function, merely implying that he would no longer post after you provided a satisfactory answer. Clearly, he has never accepted your answer as satisfactory, because he's not actually looking for one, just trying to sow doubt.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          He never did promise to close the thread, merely admitted that it was possible to ask to have that done. He also never promised to use the quote function, merely implying that he would no longer post after you provided a satisfactory answer. Clearly, he has never accepted your answer as satisfactory, because he's not actually looking for one, just trying to sow doubt.
                          He stated in post #120 "I can ask to have it closed, but can't guarantee that it will be," which reads to me as an agreement that he would once he got an answer. He then clearly implied that he'd humor me after I humored him first in post #122.

                          I kept my end of the bargain even though I knew that he wasn't going to be satisfied with the answer. But there is LITERALLY nothing more than what I've demonstrated in post #123. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Does it seem fair to you that I keep my side of the bargain by humoring him, but he doesn't have to humor me, even though implying that he would in post #122?

                          Also, I seem to remember TWeb closing threads where people have spammed stuff like this throughout the internet before (in fact, Sparko did close this thread at one point). Is there a reason mods are taking an exception to this one?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            He stated in post #120 "I can ask to have it closed, but can't guarantee that it will be," which reads to me as an agreement that he would once he got an answer. He then clearly implied that he'd humor me after I humored him first in post #122.

                            I kept my end of the bargain even though I knew that he wasn't going to be satisfied with the answer. But there is LITERALLY nothing more than what I've demonstrated in post #123. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Does it seem fair to you that I keep my side of the bargain by humoring him, but he doesn't have to humor me, even though implying that he would in post #122?

                            Also, I seem to remember TWeb closing threads where people have spammed stuff like this throughout the internet before (in fact, Sparko did close this thread at one point). Is there a reason mods are taking an exception to this one?
                            It is in no way fair. He's not here to be fair. I'm just pointing out that he did not, in fact, make any promises - merely sought to imply that he might.

                            I don't remember why this is still open. I would close it, but I've participated.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • So, this....


                              Originally posted by rstrats View Post
                              It appears that there isn't going to be anyone visiting this forum who believes:
                              1. That the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week.
                              2. That the "heart of the earth" refers to the tomb.
                              3. That the Messiah in Matthew 12:40 is employing common figure of speach/colloquial language.

                              So I shall move on and not take up anymore bandwidth.
                              Moderated By: CP

                              The OP having stated thus, thread is hereby closed

                              ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
                              Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by eider, Yesterday, 06:11 AM
                              0 responses
                              14 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post eider
                              by eider
                               
                              Started by eider, Yesterday, 02:47 AM
                              5 responses
                              33 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post rogue06
                              by rogue06
                               
                              Started by Starlight, 01-10-2021, 09:38 PM
                              2 responses
                              35 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Starlight  
                              Started by Andius, 01-05-2021, 01:26 AM
                              48 responses
                              334 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Starlight  
                              Started by Machinist, 01-03-2021, 05:26 PM
                              18 responses
                              114 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Mountain Man  
                              Working...
                              X