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Problems with Noah

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  • Problems with Noah

    The Bible says that, in the time of Noah, every inclination of human beings was evil continually. That's hard to believe because, around that time, we know that some human beings must have been doing some good. They migrated across seas and vast distances, which requires a good deal of cooperation. Not everyone thinks about doing evil every waking moment, so there's need to exaggerate here.

    We now know that a flood that covered the earth's tallest peaks didn't happen. There were certainly large flood events that occurred in that region then, but I think it's a stretch to assign a deity who triggered the flood because that entity regretted making human beings, who by that time radiated across the earth, sacrificing children and all that. A local flood compounds the logical problems and doesn't make it any less dubious.

    My question is about afterwards. It's hard to believe that Noah would be so upset about Ham seeing him naked that he'd curse his son's decedents. How did he know that God would be down with generational curse just because he was offended for being laughed at?

    Maybe he wasn't just spied in his birthday suit. Maybe something else happened. Another interpretation is that Ham raped his father, but that's a reach. That would mean God rescued a reprobate from all the reprobates on the earth He said he regretted making. That's merely protracting the problem.

    Here's some are some humorous and thought-provoking commentaries on the story from The Bible Reloaded guys. There's some foul language, but it makes some good points on the literal interpretation.

    Edited by a Moderator

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    Does a local flood erase the difficulties of the story or merely create new problems?
    Last edited by Jedidiah; 03-04-2015, 01:12 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by whag View Post
    The Bible says that, in the time of Noah, every inclination of human beings was evil continually. That's hard to believe because, around that time, we know that some human beings must have been doing some good. They migrated across seas and vast distances, which requires a good deal of cooperation
    Clicking on a whag thread is pretty much a brain cell massacre.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
      Clicking on a whag thread is pretty much a brain cell massacre.
      It'd be nice if you didn't have to contend with believing these OT stories. The NT is wild enough.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by whag View Post
        It'd be nice if you didn't have to contend with believing these OT stories. The NT is wild enough.
        It'd be nice if you didn't have to distort those stories. your opinions are wild enough without that.
        Last edited by Jedidiah; 03-04-2015, 04:39 PM.
        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
          It'd be nice if you didn't have to those stories. your opinions are wild enough without that.
          Pardon?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by whag View Post
            Pardon?
            Edited.
            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
              Edited.
              How have I distorted the stories?

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              • #8
                The flood story is obviously fictional and I don't see the point is of nitpicking with people who don't care whether or not what they believe is true.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                  The flood story is obviously fictional and I don't see the point is of nitpicking with people who don't care whether or not what they believe is true.
                  Forums for JW, Mormon, and Islam have the same types of discussion about religous "fiction," as you call it. Fiction might not be the right word here; it's not fiction in the sense that C.S. Lewis wrote.

                  Re: point, maybe it's just fun to learn and spar.
                  Last edited by whag; 03-04-2015, 08:57 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by whag View Post
                    My question is about afterwards. It's hard to believe that Noah would be so upset about Ham seeing him naked that he'd curse his son's decedents. How did he know that God would be down with generational curse just because he was offended for being laughed at?

                    Maybe he wasn't just spied in his birthday suit. Maybe something else happened. Another interpretation is that Ham raped his father, but that's a reach. That would mean God rescued a reprobate from all the reprobates on the earth He said he regretted making. That's merely protracting the problem.
                    My guess is that the Ham incident was added to the story at a later date. Genesis 9:18-27 looks to be an insertion that is there purely to rationalise the way the ancient Hebrews treated the Canaanites. It is okay to kill them, enslave them and steal there lands because God cursed Ham. It is telling that Ham himself is not punished, only his descendants.
                    My Blog: http://oncreationism.blogspot.co.uk/

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by whag View Post
                      It'd be nice if you didn't have to contend with believing these OT stories. The NT is wild enough.
                      Can you provide better more reasonable academic sources instead of the trash?

                      I agree the narrative of Noah and the flood is simply and ancient myth narrative, and should not be taken seriously as anything remotely related to actual history.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        Can you provide better more reasonable academic sources instead of the trash?

                        I agree the narrative of Noah and the flood is simply and ancient myth narrative, and should not be taken seriously as anything remotely related to actual history.
                        If true, the story would have such remote and tenuous connection to events. In what way could the Noah story possibly correspond to reality?

                        The lack of any real lucid answer here confirms how troublesome it is. Why even believe it?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                          The flood story is obviously fictional and I don't see the point is of nitpicking with people who don't care whether or not what they believe is true.
                          You don't think anybody here cares about the veracity of such things?
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                          • #14
                            By the way, I was asked in the other thread what sort of reading I prefer for Noah. I'm still working it out myself; my own view of inspiration here needs refining. I remember reading an online discussion involving Paul Seely, who has written on this subject from a Christian perspective, and he conjectured there was a local flood at some point in the Black Sea area that became a kernel for the account.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                              The flood story is obviously fictional and I don't see the point is of nitpicking with people who don't care whether or not what they believe is true.
                              I don't know anyone here who doesn't care whether or not what they believe is true.
                              ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

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