Infant sacrifice

[JimL]

And I would rather conform my understanding of goodness to what the Sovereign Ruler of Goodness views as good, rather than what some morally bankrupt human beings thinks they can get away with calling goodness.

Yes, but as I pointed out, your understanding of goodness does not conform with that of your God. In your eyes if you consider an act to be evil, that same act done by God you consider to be good. For instance, you would consider killing the innocent children of your enemy an evil act, but if your God does the same it is good. So how are you conforming your understanding of goodness to Gods if the two are in contradiction.

[JonathanL]

Yes, but as I pointed out, your understanding of goodness does not conform with that of your God. In your eyes if you consider an act to be evil, that same act done by God you consider to be good. For instance, you would consider killing the innocent children of your enemy an evil act, but if your God does the same it is good. So how are you conforming your understanding of goodness to Gods if the two are in contradiction.

Because they're not. In my view the killing of another human being is wrong because all life belongs ultimately to God and as such the prerogative of taking a life, in the most ideal of situations, belongs to God alone.

[JimL]

Because they're not. In my view the killing of another human being is wrong because all life belongs ultimately to God and as such the prerogative of taking a life, in the most ideal of situations, belongs to God alone.

Thats an excuse. Murdering an innocent human being is either objectively wrong in and of itself or it isn't. To argue that its Gods perogative to murder because life belongs to him makes right and wrong a subjective issue.

[JonathanL]

Thats an excuse. Murdering an innocent human being is either objectively wrong in and of itself or it isn't. To argue that its Gods perogative to murder because life belongs to him makes right and wrong a subjective issue.

Uh no, it does not. In my view it is still wrong to take the life of another human being without justification and it's wrongness does not depend on what people think. At the same time since all life belongs to God it gives Him an inherent justification to take any life as he sees fit, and this right does not depend on opinion either, but is simply an objective observation of reality. And that's all that's required to make the killing of someone without justification objectively wrong.


See? I can easily square my belief that it is wrong for a human being to kill another human being without justification with my belief that God has the inherent right to every single life in this universe.

[Christianbookworm]

Uh no, it does not. In my view it is still wrong to take the life of another human being without justification and it's wrongness does not depend on what people think. At the same time since all life belongs to God it gives Him an inherent justification to take any life as he sees fit, and this right does not depend on opinion either, but is simply an objective observation of reality. And that's all that's required to make the killing of someone without justification objectively wrong.


See? I can easily square my belief that it is wrong for a human being to kill another human being without justification with my belief that God has the inherent right to every single life in this universe.

Plus, God can raise the dead back to life! No different than a writer temporarily killing off a character. Mild inconvenience. We can't just flip a switch from life to death to life. Though there are some surgeries that require having the patient be temporarily clinicaly dead(and on ice), which would go with reversible killing being okay.

[JimL]

Uh no, it does not. In my view it is still wrong to take the life of another human being without justification and it's wrongness does not depend on what people think. At the same time since all life belongs to God it gives Him an inherent justification to take any life as he sees fit, and this right does not depend on opinion either, but is simply an objective observation of reality. And that's all that's required to make the killing of someone without justification objectively wrong.


See? I can easily square my belief that it is wrong for a human being to kill another human being without justification with my belief that God has the inherent right to every single life in this universe.

And that's the problem that believers have to deal with, they are always trying to square objective reality with their subjective beliefs. It doesn't really have to make sense, right and wrong, good and evil, have no real objectivity in themselves they are only right or wrong when and if your God says they are. That is how terrorists, religious crusaders, justify their evil deeds. All they need do is attribute them to their Gods will.

[seer]

Whether or not God has the perogative to act, says nothing as to whether the act itself is a good or an evil. This is why I said that in your world there is no objective right or wrong because in your world there is a God for whom there is no right or wrong. Second, the rest of your post is entirely fabricated to suit your beliefs, since there is nothing in the story of the Exodus that says what you assert to be the facts. You made it up seer.

No Jim, I take the whole bible into view. Like what Jesus said about children, the age of accountability, etc... And you are ignorant Jim, God is good by nature, His immutable moral nature. And if there is no God Jim, then there is no objective moral law or right or wrong - so all your objections are completely meaningless.

[JonathanL]

And that's the problem that believers have to deal with, they are always trying to square objective reality with their subjective beliefs. It doesn't really have to make sense, right and wrong, good and evil, have no real objectivity in themselves they are only right or wrong when and if your God says they are. That is how terrorists, religious crusaders, justify their evil deeds. All they need do is attribute them to their Gods will.

Cool story bro.

[JimL]

No Jim, I take the whole bible into view. Like what Jesus said about children, the age of accountability, etc... And you are ignorant Jim, God is good by nature, His immutable moral nature. And if there is no God Jim, then there is no objective moral law or right or wrong - so all your objections are completely meaningless.

That doesn't even answer my objection seer. If taking the life of innocent victims is objectively wrong, then it is wrong period. In a God there would be no distinction in the terms objective and subjective, in a God the two terms would have the same meaning, but the distinctions between right and wrong would not change. Now I realize that you are never going to admit to the logic of this because contrary to your previous posts, your mind is not open to other possibilities, and you can't even see that it is in your world, with your God, that there is no objective moral law or right and wrong.

[Christianbookworm]

That doesn't even answer my objection seer. If taking the life of innocent victims is objectively wrong, then it is wrong period. In a God there would be no distinction in the terms objective and subjective, in a God the two terms would have the same meaning, but the distinctions between right and wrong would not change. Now I realize that you are never going to admit to the logic of this because contrary to your previous posts, your mind is not open to other possibilities, and you can't even see that it is in your world, with your God, that there is no objective moral law or right and wrong.

Taking the life of an innocent isn't always wrong. What if they were trapped and a fire was getting closer and there was no way to save them? And the choice is let them die a horrible death by fire or a quick death from the bullet in your gun?
Again, to God, physical death is temporary. So, He can bring back anyone that dies.

[JimL]

Taking the life of an innocent isn't always wrong. What if they were trapped and a fire was getting closer and there was no way to save them? And the choice is let them die a horrible death by fire or a quick death from the bullet in your gun?

This is what I mean about fabricating the facts in order to conform them to your beliefs. We are not discussing the situation you describe above, we are discussing the murder of perfectly healthy innocent children.

Again, to God, physical death is temporary. So, He can bring back anyone that dies.

And again, it doesn't matter whether God could bring back anyone that is murdered, if murder is objectively wrong then it is objectively wrong period. If murdering innocents can be both right and wrong dependent on a Gods will, then murdering innocents isn't an objective wrong. Apparently you people have difficultly understanding that, and that, I think, is because you are trying very hard to justify your beliefs..

[Christianbookworm]

Homicide, yes. Murder? Dunno, more a failure to save them. Because he could prevent all childhood death if he wanted to. But overpopulation wouldn't be good either. Would you feel better if he didn't leave a body and just took them like Enoch and Elijah?