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Infant sacrifice

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  • #16
    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    But you said, or quoted: No one is to appear before me empty handed. And the child is an infant and hardly capable of serving in the tabernacle.
    Not immediately no, nor were Samson and Samuel. Samuel was raised by his mother for a while, and then later raised in the Temple. This isn't a problem unless you are trying to force it to be one.

    The punishment implied is to be exacted on the child, not the parent. The Parent obviously loses his son as a punishment for non payment, but again there is no other implication in the story other than that the child is sacrificed, put to death like the first born animals. You can suggest any possibility other than sacrifice, but you won't find those possiblities in the story itself.
    Again, high context society vs low context society. You are trying to force your own ideas on the text, and on the culture. That's not how you are supposed to read an ancient document.

    Originally posted by Cerebrum123
    It doesn't explicitly list a punishment here, and those who would be judging were allowed some leeway on different rules when it came to punishment.
    Yeah, I had to fix the quote tags a little, so this post looks different than usual.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      The punishment implied is to be exacted on the child, not the parent. The Parent obviously loses his son as a punishment for non payment, but again there is no other implication in the story other than that the child is sacrificed, put to death like the first born animals. You can suggest any possibility other than sacrifice, but you won't find those possiblities in the story itself.
      You won't find the possibility of breaking the neck of your firstborn son either, but for some reason you keep repeating that assertion like a broken record.
      ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

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      • #18
        Originally posted by JimL View Post
        And the child is an infant and hardly capable of serving in the tabernacle.
        You know, if you'd have thought about this for about five more seconds before continuing on with the rest of your post you probably would have realised that the answer to this objection would have been something along the line of "No, he's not, but as soon as he's grown up a bit he will be."
        ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
          You won't find the possibility of breaking the neck of your firstborn son either, but for some reason you keep repeating that assertion like a broken record.
          What you find in the story is that the first born sons, just like for that of the animals, the punishment for non payment, is their being sacrificed, i.e. being put to death. Now that is implied in the story, that is where it is found, your alternative understanding on the other hand is not to be found in that story.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by JimL View Post
            What you find in the story is that the first born sons, just like for that of the animals, the punishment for non payment, is their being sacrificed, i.e. being put to death. Now that is implied in the story, that is where it is found, your alternative understanding on the other hand is not to be found in that story.
            It's almost like clockwork.
            ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
              You know, if you'd have thought about this for about five more seconds before continuing on with the rest of your post you probably would have realised that the answer to this objection would have been something along the line of "No, he's not, but as soon as he's grown up a bit he will be."
              But again, the story itself implies sacrifice by death, just as the Egyptian firstborn sons and first born animals, as well as the firstborn animals of the Israelites are put to death. There is no ther impication in that story that implies another type of sacrifice. What is the reason behind your thinking otherwise?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                But again, the story itself implies sacrifice by death, just as the Egyptian firstborn sons and first born animals, as well as the firstborn animals of the Israelites are put to death. There is no ther impication in that story that implies another type of sacrifice. What is the reason behind your thinking otherwise?
                The fact that the Bible condemns child sacrifice elsewhere (Leviticus 20) for instance.
                ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                  The fact that the Bible condemns child sacrifice elsewhere (Leviticus 20) for instance.
                  Genesis 22:2 and Judges 11:39, too.

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                  • #24
                    Jephthah and his daughter's sadness was due to the fact that his bloodline would end with her, and she would serve the Lord forever as a virgin(or until she died?).
                    Last edited by Cerealman; 02-08-2015, 05:58 PM.
                    "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
                    "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
                    Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by whag View Post
                      Genesis 22:2 and Judges 11:39, too.
                      Yeah, God sends an angel to Abraham hindering him from sacrificing Isaac. Genesis 22 really does condemn child sacrifice.
                      ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                        Yeah, God sends an angel to Abraham hindering him from sacrificing Isaac. Genesis 22 really does condemn child sacrifice.
                        Making the request silly, of course, since God, being God, should already know Abraham's level of faith. I call myth on this.

                        Judges 11:39?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by whag View Post
                          Judges 11:39?
                          I'm assuming your argument is that God condones child sacrifice since Jephtah vowed to give up the first thing that came out through the doors of his house as a burnt offering when he returned home and the person that first came to greet him was his daughter. The argument has already been made elsewhere that Jephtah didn't sacrifice his daughther at all, but disregarding that I fail to see how God is required to condone the idiocy of one of His followers in the first place.
                          ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                            I'm assuming your argument is that God condones child sacrifice since Jephtah vowed to give up the first thing that came out through the doors of his house as a burnt offering when he returned home and the person that first came to greet him was his daughter. The argument has already been made elsewhere that Jephtah didn't sacrifice his daughther at all,
                            The whole point of the story is that he did.

                            Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                            but disregarding that I fail to see how God is required to condone the idiocy of one of His followers in the first place.
                            Nor is he required to carry out the idiocy of one of his followers.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by whag View Post
                              The whole point of the story is that he did.



                              Nor is he required to carry out the idiocy of one of his followers.
                              Where in the text does it say that He did?
                              ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by whag View Post
                                Making the request silly, of course, since God, being God, should already know Abraham's level of faith.
                                Perhaps it wasn't for God's sake then.

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