Samson's and Delilah's Interaction

[rogue06]

You sure we're talking about love here? Those people had genuine psychological issues.

There is no parallel with Samson. The divulging of the secret is a plot point to move the story forward. You can't chop off a man's braids without waking him; it's not like he was drunk.

If viewed as history, it makes God look out of character for appointing such a boasting moron to high office. He brags about killing a thousand men, fer criminy. As myth it makes sense. As history, not so much.

Do you seriously think that it is impossible to snip someone's hair off without waking them? You obviously have no experience with sound sleepers.

When we were teens, even though we had our own rooms, my brother snored so loudly he would wake me up. I would go into his room, lift him up and turn him over off of his back. I think in the dozen plus times I did that he only woke once.

And no. He wasn't drunk or even excessively tired. He is just a sound sleeper.

[KingsGambit]

Then there was the time when I was a kid who was the unfortunate soul to fall asleep first at a sleepover. I woke up with hot sauce in my mouth.

[Cow Poke]

I wouldn't call it love, either. It's more sickness.

Problem is that the bible says Samson is in love. With a hussy who wants him dead.

The Hebrew word describing Samson's "love" for her is 'ahab (pronounced ä·hav') - same word that would be used for "I love french fries".

He lusted after her - men often mistake that as true love. (Qal - human appetite for objects such as food, drink, sleep, wisdom)

You're making way too much of this, Whag.

[rogue06]

Then there was the time when I was a kid who was the unfortunate soul to fall asleep first at a sleepover. I woke up with hot sauce in my mouth.

There were other things I did to my brother when he was snoring before I just started lifting him up and turning him over (he would sleep on his back with his knees pulled up so it was pretty easy to reach under his shoulders/neck and knees and lift).

For instance I would put whipped cream in his hands and tickle his nose with a feather (or even a piece of string if I didn't have a feather) causing him to wipe his face with a whip cream laden hand.

And I once put raw hamburger in his ear (warmed it slightly by holding it for a few minutes) and then carried the dog into his room and let him get a good sniff of the meat before letting him lick and eat it out of his ear. I swear he leapt a god two feet straight up in the air (my brother not the dog)

I never did the hand in a bucket of warm water trick because I knew mom would kill me since she would have been the one who had to wash the bedding (Pro Tip: Putting just the finger tips in the water rarely works. You need to get the hand up to the wrist in the water for guaranteed success).

[whag]

Do you seriously think that it is impossible to snip someone's hair off without waking them? You obviously have no experience with sound sleepers.

When we were teens, even though we had our own rooms, my brother snored so loudly he would wake me up. I would go into his room, lift him up and turn him over off of his back. I think in the dozen plus times I did that he only woke once.

And no. He wasn't drunk or even excessively tired. He is just a sound sleeper.

Yes, I would say it's unlikely. If what you say is true, he'd know he's a sound sleeper and be even more reticent to give her instructions for his capture. It's more likely a plot point to move the story forward.

[Carrikature]

Yes, I would say it's unlikely. If what you say is true, he'd know he's a sound sleeper and be even more reticent to give her instructions for his capture. It's more likely a plot point to move the story forward.

Or he views it as a challenge. You don't think he found the whole thing funny? "Hey look, if I give them some false story I can beat up some more idiots". Your objections here fail pretty hard.

[Cerebrum123]

Yes, I would say it's unlikely. If what you say is true, he'd know he's a sound sleeper and be even more reticent to give her instructions for his capture. It's more likely a plot point to move the story forward.

You're expecting way too much of a man who was already known to do anything[1] for a pretty woman.

1. Including killing 30 men to pay for the bet he "lost", and in revenge for taking her from him destroyed their fields with foxes with torches tied to the tails.

[Cerebrum123]

Or he views it as a challenge. You don't think he found the whole thing funny? "Hey look, if I give them some false story I can beat up some more idiots". Your objections here fail pretty hard.

Yup, given his previous disregard of God's laws(the honey, and I'm pretty sure he drank wine too, which was against the Nazarite vow) it's not all that surprising either.

[whag]

The Hebrew word describing Samson's "love" for her is 'ahab (pronounced ä·hav') - same word that would be used for "I love french fries".

He lusted after her - men often mistake that as true love. (Qal - human appetite for objects such as food, drink, sleep, wisdom)

You're making way too much of this, Whag.

That's what I'm saying. He wasn't "in love" with her.

I'd say the same thing about people who pour lye on their mates. Either that or love's extremely ambiguous compared to Paul's definition. It sometimes boasts, is impatient and unkind, and does unbecoming things.

[Cow Poke]

That's what I'm saying. He wasn't "in love" with her.

Your claim was that the Bible said he was.

I'd say the same thing about people who pour lye on their mates. Either that or love's extremely ambiguous compared to Paul's definition. It sometimes boasts, is impatient and unkind, and does unbecoming things.

I think it was obvious it was lust, not love.

[whag]

Or he views it as a challenge. You don't think he found the whole thing funny? "Hey look, if I give them some false story I can beat up some more idiots". Your objections here fail pretty hard.

If it was merriment to him, he wouldn't end the fun like that. He'd enjoy prolonging the prank until there were no Philistine soldiers left.

[whag]

Your claim was that the Bible said he was.

"Some time later, he fell in love with a woman in the Valley of Sorek whose name was Delilah."

I think it was obvious it was lust, not love.

Perhaps it was pure lust. It's hard to get aroused by a nagging woman, though.

Maybe he had great hate sex with her and then fell into a postcoital sleep, enabling the chopping of his braids while he snored.

[Carrikature]

If it was merriment to him, he wouldn't end the fun like that. He'd enjoy prolonging the prank until there were no Philistine soldiers left.

Not necessarily. Even an idiot can sometimes see when they've taken pranks too far, especially when faced with a distraught woman claiming that he must not love her or he wouldn't keep doing it. The story as told fits pretty well with human nature. There might be plenty to pick at in the Samson stories, but this part of them isn't it.

[Cow Poke]

"Some time later, he fell in love with a woman in the Valley of Sorek whose name was Delilah."

It REALLY helps to identify the version of the Bible you're using, Whag. Then do a little research and see what the original intent was, so far as that can be determined by the Hebrew, etc. I don't recall you being this intellectually lazy. Once again, the Hebrew indicates much less "in love" than "lust". Samson had a number of faults, one of which was sexual.

Look at verse 1 of that passage in the ISV - "Sometime later, Samson went to Gaza, saw a prostitute there, and went in to have sex with her".

Perhaps it was pure lust. It's hard to get aroused by a nagging woman, though.

He obviously had a problem with sexual purity - it was a glaring weakness. God often uses people in spite of their weaknesses.

Maybe he had great hate sex with her and then fell into a postcoital sleep, enabling the chopping of his braids while he snored.

[whag]

Not necessarily. Even an idiot can sometimes see when they've taken pranks too far, especially when faced with a distraught woman claiming that he must not love her or he wouldn't keep doing it.

But...but she's trying to kill him. Even an idiot could shut her up without divulging his Achilles' heel in the process.

Conversely, even the idiotic Philistines wouldn't be so stupid as to think they'd get the right info after the intent was made clear. They'd know they were being punkd.

Is it possible? Of course. Is this likely human interaction? No. It's almost as unlikely this would happen as Samson killing 1,000 soldiers with a fresh donkey jawbone. IMHO, it's consistent with the story being legend.