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Yahweh Vs. The gods

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  • Yahweh Vs. The gods

    Please watch the video and discuss the content. Agree? Disagree? Why?


  • #2
    Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
    Please watch the video and discuss the content. Agree? Disagree? Why?
    The gentleman is making generalizations which are not really very accurate. The conception of "deity" which he discusses certainly wasn't the one envisioned by Pythagoras, Plato, or Aristotle, for example, and there are a great many religions, today, which are not Abrahamic but which nonetheless hold to the idea of a supernatural deity.

    It is certainly not true that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the only religions which have ever asserted that deity is wholly removed from Nature, and that the gods of all other religions are entirely anthropomorphic. It's not even true that Judaism was the first monotheistic religion, as the gentleman rather strongly implies.

    Further, his ultimate point seems entirely dubious. The fact that a religion offers some unique view of things tells us nothing about the veracity of that view. Even if he had been correct in his assertion that the Jews were the first people to hold to the idea of a transcendent monotheism, that does not-- in any way-- indicate that it is correct to hold to the idea of a transcendent monotheism.

    So, I guess it's safe to say that I disagree with him.
    "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
    --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

    Comment


    • #3
      My ADD kicked in pretty quickly. He's very monotone and doesn't command his audience's attention very well.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment


      • #4
        at the end
        "...the Hebrew people say we didn't want this God, but we couldn't get away from Him, ...H broke into our life and revealed Himself..."

        that makes sense,
        I think they were perfectly happy with pagan practices
        To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes. I agree. God of our Hebrew Bible has always reveled Himself to man. He was not invented by man. Though the critics accuse otherwise. God is both transcendant and knowable. Knowable on His terms.
          . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post

            It is certainly not true that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the only religions which have ever asserted that deity is wholly removed from Nature, and that the gods of all other religions are entirely anthropomorphic. It's not even true that Judaism was the first monotheistic religion, as the gentleman rather strongly implies.
            Give an example. One of a deity totally removed from Nature. Give one example where Yahweh as part of His creation.


            So, I guess it's safe to say that I disagree with him.
            Yes, that is evident by your arguments.
            Last edited by 37818; 01-14-2015, 03:19 PM.
            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              Give an example. One of a deity totally removed from Nature.
              From antiquity? Plato's conception of deity was abstract and removed from Nature. In modern religions? Ba'hai, Sikhism, the Druze, and Yazdanism.

              Zoroastrianism counts for both antiquity and modern religion.

              Give one example where Yahweh as part of His creation.
              While that wasn't really one of my claims, you don't even need to go outside the Bible for that one. Genesis 3 depicts God as walking around Eden physically, such that he created noises which Adam and Eve heard.
              "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
              --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                From antiquity? Plato's conception of deity was abstract and removed from Nature.
                So man is not part of nature? Plato depicts God as a "craftsman." Who fashions the world out of chaos. Plato's God is subordinate to other pre-existent things.

                In modern religions? Ba'hai, Sikhism, the Druze, and Yazdanism.
                They deny the God of the Hebrews. And as you pointed out they are "modern" post the influence of Judeo-Christian beliefs.
                Zoroastrianism counts for both antiquity and modern religion.
                Zoroaster's god was a spirit being, Ahura Mazda from the Old Iranian religion which preceded him. Not even close.

                While that wasn't really one of my claims, you don't even need to go outside the Bible for that one. Genesis 3 depicts God as walking around Eden physically, such that he created noises which Adam and Eve heard.
                Ah, that was the Son of God (as explained John 1:18)who as Yahweh made all of God's appearances on His behalf as God, and so walked in the garden. And appeared to Abraham, Genesis 12:7 (John 8:56), and was seen by Isaiah the prophet, Isaiah 6:5 (John 12:41). Those appearances are also called theophanies.
                . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  So man is not part of nature? Plato depicts God as a "craftsman." Who fashions the world out of chaos. Plato's God is subordinate to other pre-existent things.
                  You're mistaking the metaphor for the essence. In Plato's Laws, he explicitly argues that there existed one or more divine souls which were the origin of motion in the natural world. These souls are entirely distinct from the natural world. It's quite likely that Aristotle built upon this framework when developing his own concept of unmoved movers, which was later adapted by Averroes and then Aquinas.

                  They deny the God of the Hebrews. And as you pointed out they are "modern" post the influence of Judeo-Christian beliefs.
                  What does denial of the God of the Hebrews have to do with anything? The gentleman in the video claimed that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the only transcendental monotheistic religions. He was mistaken, as these religions are certainly transcendental monotheisms.

                  Zoroaster's god was a spirit being, Ahura Mazda from the Old Iranian religion which preceded him. Not even close.
                  Zoroastrianism is definitely a transcendental monotheism.

                  Ah, that was the Son of God (as explained John 1:18)who as Yahweh made all of God's appearances on His behalf as God, and so walked in the garden. And appeared to Abraham, Genesis 12:7 (John 8:56), and was seen by Isaiah the prophet, Isaiah 6:5 (John 12:41). Those appearances are also called theophanies.
                  You asked for an example of the God of the Hebrews in his Creation. I gave you an example of this. Whether you think it was the first, second, or third person of the Trinity is irrelevant. It was still the God of the Hebrews in Creation.
                  "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                  --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                    He was not invented by man.
                    According to the story written in the book by men.
                    Last edited by firstfloor; 01-15-2015, 07:35 AM.
                    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                    “not all there” - you know who you are

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                      According to the story written in the book by men.
                      You really don't understand.
                      . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                        You're mistaking the metaphor for the essence. In Plato's Laws, he explicitly argues that there existed one or more divine souls which were the origin of motion in the natural world. These souls are entirely distinct from the natural world. It's quite likely that Aristotle built upon this framework when developing his own concept of unmoved movers, which was later adapted by Averroes and then Aquinas.

                        What does denial of the God of the Hebrews have to do with anything? The gentleman in the video claimed that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the only transcendental monotheistic religions. He was mistaken, as these religions are certainly transcendental monotheisms.

                        Zoroastrianism is definitely a transcendental monotheism.

                        You asked for an example of the God of the Hebrews in his Creation. I gave you an example of this. Whether you think it was the first, second, or third person of the Trinity is irrelevant. It was still the God of the Hebrews in Creation.
                        Just because you make these bogus claims, you think are true does not make them true. Just provide proof for one.
                        . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          You really don't understand.
                          Nobody does. But He’s not in the book. Cannibalism is though.
                          “I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh during the stress of the siege imposed on them by the enemies who seek their lives.”
                          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                          “not all there” - you know who you are

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                            Just because you make these bogus claims, you think are true does not make them true. Just provide proof for one.
                            For Plato, I already mentioned that it was from his Laws, but I'll get more specific. In Book 10 of Laws, Plato explicitly argues that the soul is not a physical body, that souls precede physical bodies, and that deity is what provides the soul with motion, therefore deity must be similarly non-physical and must precede even souls.

                            http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...0%3Apage%3D893

                            For the Ba'hai faith: http://info.bahai.org/article-1-4-0-2.html
                            For Sikhism: http://www.sikhs.org/philos.htm
                            For the Druze: http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/vi...58&context=etd
                            For Zoroastrianism: http://jaar.oxfordjournals.org/conte...II/4/557.short
                            "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                            --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                              For Plato, I already mentioned that it was from his Laws, but I'll get more specific. In Book 10 of Laws, Plato explicitly argues that the soul is not a physical body, that souls precede physical bodies, and that deity is what provides the soul with motion, therefore deity must be similarly non-physical and must precede even souls.
                              That does not change the fact that Plato's deity is subordinate to things which pre-exist.

                              They all have been influenced by the Hebrew and Christian scriptures which precedes their modern views.
                              . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                              Comment

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