Yahweh Vs. The gods

[Scrawly]

Please watch the video and discuss the content. Agree? Disagree? Why?

[Boxing Pythagoras]

Please watch the video and discuss the content. Agree? Disagree? Why?

The gentleman is making generalizations which are not really very accurate. The conception of "deity" which he discusses certainly wasn't the one envisioned by Pythagoras, Plato, or Aristotle, for example, and there are a great many religions, today, which are not Abrahamic but which nonetheless hold to the idea of a supernatural deity.

It is certainly not true that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the only religions which have ever asserted that deity is wholly removed from Nature, and that the gods of all other religions are entirely anthropomorphic. It's not even true that Judaism was the first monotheistic religion, as the gentleman rather strongly implies.

Further, his ultimate point seems entirely dubious. The fact that a religion offers some unique view of things tells us nothing about the veracity of that view. Even if he had been correct in his assertion that the Jews were the first people to hold to the idea of a transcendent monotheism, that does not-- in any way-- indicate that it is correct to hold to the idea of a transcendent monotheism.

So, I guess it's safe to say that I disagree with him.

[Bill the Cat]

My ADD kicked in pretty quickly. He's very monotone and doesn't command his audience's attention very well.

[jordanriver]

at the end
"...the Hebrew people say we didn't want this God, but we couldn't get away from Him, ...H broke into our life and revealed Himself..."

that makes sense,
I think they were perfectly happy with pagan practices

[37818]

Yes. I agree. God of our Hebrew Bible has always reveled Himself to man. He was not invented by man. Though the critics accuse otherwise. God is both transcendant and knowable. Knowable on His terms.

[37818]

It is certainly not true that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the only religions which have ever asserted that deity is wholly removed from Nature, and that the gods of all other religions are entirely anthropomorphic. It's not even true that Judaism was the first monotheistic religion, as the gentleman rather strongly implies.

Give an example. One of a deity totally removed from Nature. Give one example where Yahweh as part of His creation.

So, I guess it's safe to say that I disagree with him.

Yes, that is evident by your arguments.

[Boxing Pythagoras]

Give an example. One of a deity totally removed from Nature.

From antiquity? Plato's conception of deity was abstract and removed from Nature. In modern religions? Ba'hai, Sikhism, the Druze, and Yazdanism.

Zoroastrianism counts for both antiquity and modern religion.

Give one example where Yahweh as part of His creation.

While that wasn't really one of my claims, you don't even need to go outside the Bible for that one. Genesis 3 depicts God as walking around Eden physically, such that he created noises which Adam and Eve heard.

[37818]

From antiquity? Plato's conception of deity was abstract and removed from Nature.

So man is not part of nature? Plato depicts God as a "craftsman." Who fashions the world out of chaos. Plato's God is subordinate to other pre-existent things.

In modern religions? Ba'hai, Sikhism, the Druze, and Yazdanism.

They deny the God of the Hebrews. And as you pointed out they are "modern" post the influence of Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Zoroastrianism counts for both antiquity and modern religion.

Zoroaster's god was a spirit being, Ahura Mazda from the Old Iranian religion which preceded him. Not even close.

While that wasn't really one of my claims, you don't even need to go outside the Bible for that one. Genesis 3 depicts God as walking around Eden physically, such that he created noises which Adam and Eve heard.

Ah, that was the Son of God (as explained John 1:18)who as Yahweh made all of God's appearances on His behalf as God, and so walked in the garden. And appeared to Abraham, Genesis 12:7 (John 8:56), and was seen by Isaiah the prophet, Isaiah 6:5 (John 12:41). Those appearances are also called theophanies.

[Boxing Pythagoras]

So man is not part of nature? Plato depicts God as a "craftsman." Who fashions the world out of chaos. Plato's God is subordinate to other pre-existent things.

You're mistaking the metaphor for the essence. In Plato's Laws, he explicitly argues that there existed one or more divine souls which were the origin of motion in the natural world. These souls are entirely distinct from the natural world. It's quite likely that Aristotle built upon this framework when developing his own concept of unmoved movers, which was later adapted by Averroes and then Aquinas.

They deny the God of the Hebrews. And as you pointed out they are "modern" post the influence of Judeo-Christian beliefs.

What does denial of the God of the Hebrews have to do with anything? The gentleman in the video claimed that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the only transcendental monotheistic religions. He was mistaken, as these religions are certainly transcendental monotheisms.

Zoroaster's god was a spirit being, Ahura Mazda from the Old Iranian religion which preceded him. Not even close.

Zoroastrianism is definitely a transcendental monotheism.

Ah, that was the Son of God (as explained John 1:18)who as Yahweh made all of God's appearances on His behalf as God, and so walked in the garden. And appeared to Abraham, Genesis 12:7 (John 8:56), and was seen by Isaiah the prophet, Isaiah 6:5 (John 12:41). Those appearances are also called theophanies.

You asked for an example of the God of the Hebrews in his Creation. I gave you an example of this. Whether you think it was the first, second, or third person of the Trinity is irrelevant. It was still the God of the Hebrews in Creation.

[firstfloor]

He was not invented by man.

According to the story written in the book by men.

[37818]

According to the story written in the book by men.

You really don't understand.

[37818]

You're mistaking the metaphor for the essence. In Plato's Laws, he explicitly argues that there existed one or more divine souls which were the origin of motion in the natural world. These souls are entirely distinct from the natural world. It's quite likely that Aristotle built upon this framework when developing his own concept of unmoved movers, which was later adapted by Averroes and then Aquinas.

What does denial of the God of the Hebrews have to do with anything? The gentleman in the video claimed that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the only transcendental monotheistic religions. He was mistaken, as these religions are certainly transcendental monotheisms.

Zoroastrianism is definitely a transcendental monotheism.

You asked for an example of the God of the Hebrews in his Creation. I gave you an example of this. Whether you think it was the first, second, or third person of the Trinity is irrelevant. It was still the God of the Hebrews in Creation.

Just because you make these bogus claims, you think are true does not make them true. Just provide proof for one.

[firstfloor]

You really don't understand.

Nobody does. But He’s not in the book. Cannibalism is though.
“I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh during the stress of the siege imposed on them by the enemies who seek their lives.”

[Boxing Pythagoras]

Just because you make these bogus claims, you think are true does not make them true. Just provide proof for one.

For Plato, I already mentioned that it was from his Laws, but I'll get more specific. In Book 10 of Laws, Plato explicitly argues that the soul is not a physical body, that souls precede physical bodies, and that deity is what provides the soul with motion, therefore deity must be similarly non-physical and must precede even souls.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...0%3Apage%3D893

For the Ba'hai faith: http://info.bahai.org/article-1-4-0-2.html
For Sikhism: http://www.sikhs.org/philos.htm
For the Druze: http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/vi...58&context=etd
For Zoroastrianism: http://jaar.oxfordjournals.org/conte...II/4/557.short

[37818]

For Plato, I already mentioned that it was from his Laws, but I'll get more specific. In Book 10 of Laws, Plato explicitly argues that the soul is not a physical body, that souls precede physical bodies, and that deity is what provides the soul with motion, therefore deity must be similarly non-physical and must precede even souls.

That does not change the fact that Plato's deity is subordinate to things which pre-exist.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...0%3Apage%3D893

For the Ba'hai faith: http://info.bahai.org/article-1-4-0-2.html
For Sikhism: http://www.sikhs.org/philos.htm
For the Druze: http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/vi...58&context=etd
For Zoroastrianism: http://jaar.oxfordjournals.org/conte...II/4/557.short

They all have been influenced by the Hebrew and Christian scriptures which precedes their modern views.