The story of David and Goliath sounds an awful lot like myth to me. The story doesn't make much sense, as the Israelites needn't have feared Goliath's obviously absurd challenge. Neither winner's nation would assent to complete subjugation. There are many other clues that it is highly embellished that we can discuss, such as David killing a lion. Can one regard that story as legend, or is skepticism of these kinds of biblical stories frowned upon? How much of a burden exists in Christianity to believe these OT stories?
Announcement
Collapse
Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Goliath and Legend
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by whag View PostThe story of David and Goliath sounds an awful lot like myth to me. The story doesn't make much sense, as the Israelites needn't have feared Goliath's obviously absurd challenge. Neither winner's nation would assent to complete subjugation. There are many other clues that it is highly embellished that we can discuss, such as David killing a lion. Can one regard that story as legend, or is skepticism of these kinds of biblical stories frowned upon? How much of a burden exists in Christianity to believe these OT stories?
Hawking writes "Why did the universe start out with so nearly the critical rate of expansion that seperates models that recollapse from those that go on expanding forever, so that even now, ten thousand million years later, it is still expanding at nearly the critical rate? If the rate of expansion one second after the big bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have recollapsed before it ever reached its present size"
whag, why are you so 'small potatoes', ?To say that crony capitalism is not true/free market capitalism, is like saying a grand slam is not true baseball, or like saying scoring a touchdown is not true American football ...Stefan Mykhaylo D
-
Originally posted by whag View PostThe story of David and Goliath sounds an awful lot like myth to me. The story doesn't make much sense, as the Israelites needn't have feared Goliath's obviously absurd challenge. Neither winner's nation would assent to complete subjugation. There are many other clues that it is highly embellished that we can discuss, such as David killing a lion. Can one regard that story as legend, or is skepticism of these kinds of biblical stories frowned upon? How much of a burden exists in Christianity to believe these OT stories?
2) There is archeological evidence consistent with the biblical account for Goliath: http://www.ukapologetics.net/goliath.html
3) Christian's should view these narratives the way Jesus did - as historically true.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Scrawly View Post1) This narrative, and essentially the entire OT really, would sound a lot like a myth/legend to those operating with naturalistic presuppositions.
2) There is archeological evidence consistent with the biblical account for Goliath: http://www.ukapologetics.net/goliath.html
3) Christian's should view these narratives the way Jesus did - as historically true."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
Comment
-
Originally posted by Scrawly View Post1) This narrative, and essentially the entire OT really, would sound a lot like a myth/legend to those operating with naturalistic presuppositions.
Originally posted by Scrawly View Post2) There is archeological evidence consistent with the biblical account for Goliath: http://www.ukapologetics.net/goliath.html
Originally posted by Scrawly View Post3) Christian's should view these narratives the way Jesus did - as historically true.
Comment
-
Originally posted by whag View PostThat's what I was asking. Conservative Christians must view it as literally being true, in the same way they view the gospels? Or can they regard it as legend and not be burdened with maintaining a belief in the OT stories that appear to be legend?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
Comment
-
Originally posted by jordanriver View Postfine tuned universe miracle
Hawking writes "Why did the universe start out with so nearly the critical rate of expansion that seperates models that recollapse from those that go on expanding forever, so that even now, ten thousand million years later, it is still expanding at nearly the critical rate? If the rate of expansion one second after the big bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have recollapsed before it ever reached its present size"
whag, why are you so 'small potatoes', ?
Comment
-
8 Goliath stood and shouted to the ranks of Israel, “Why do you come out and line up for battle? Am I not a Philistine, and are you not the servants of Saul? Choose a man and have him come down to me. 9 If he is able to fight and kill me, we will become your subjects; but if I overcome him and kill him, you will become our subjects and serve us.” 10 Then the Philistine said, “This day I defy the armies of Israel! Give me a man and let us fight each other.” 11 On hearing the Philistine’s words, Saul and all the Israelites were dismayed and terrified.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostThey sound a lot like myth/legend even to those who aren't operating with naturalistic presuppositions, in exactly the same way that tales of Achilles and Beowulf and King Arthur sound a lot like myth/legend.
That can hardly be considered "archaeological evidence consistent with the biblical account for Goliath." The fact that there actually may have been people with the name "Goliath" in no way implies that there was ever a giant named Goliath who was killed by a shepherd boy using a sling.
Why? I know several Christians who would ardently disagree with this.
Comment
-
Originally posted by whag View PostI think there are liberal Christias without naturalist presupposition that would regard that story legend as highly embellished.
Is there anything about a 9 warrior there? Gigantism of that sort is a handicap and nothing to be feared. Also, is it believable that little David could kill a lion and that Saul would enlist him based on that account?
That's what I was asking. Conservative Christians must view it as literally being true, in the same way they view the gospels? Or can they regard it as legend and not be burdened with maintaining a belief in the OT stories that appear to be legend?
Comment
-
Originally posted by Scrawly View PostYou're right and even though they may believe they are operating without naturalistic presuppositions, I think their methodology often proves otherwise and undercuts a belief in the supernatural.
I don't think there is anything in the narrative that seems outrageous if one holds to a belief in the supernatural and a God who intervenes in space-time history.
They can disagree with how Jesus viewed the OT, sure, but I find that odd.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Scrawly View PostWell, if one is open to the existence of God, then one ought to be open to the possibility that the one true God revealed Himself to ancient Israel and interacted with them in the manner described in the OT.
Well the archeological evidence we do have, scant as it may be, is not inconsistent with the biblical narrative.
Well, if they believe that Jesus is God and the Bible is the word of God, then they should believe what Jesus believed about the OT. Unless they want to disagree with God?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
Comment
-
Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostWould you say the same thing about the legends surrounding Osiris or Pythagoras or Mohammed or Joseph Smith?
The archaeological evidence which we have is also not inconsistent with a great deal of non-Christian claims which have the appearance of being legendary. For example, no archaeological evidence is inconsistent with the tale of Beowulf. That doesn't mean a person is justified in believing Beowulf is an accurate historical account of actual events.
Their answer would be that Jesus is also Man, and during his incarnation he took on the frailties of Man-- which includes temporarily cutting himself off from omniscience.
Comment
-
Why do you think it so unbelievable that a shepherd could have killed a lion? Shepherding was hard work. There were marauding thieves and wild beasts, and the sheep have to be moved from one place to another for grazing and water and back to the fold every night.
There was no gate or door on the fold. The shepherd lay down and slept in the doorway so he could protect the sheep from theft or hungry animals, as well as prevent them from wandering out and away. Not a job for weak little boys.
David was probably pretty buff. And a slingshot was a good weapon against wild critters as it could be used from a fair distance. I bet he was good at it, too!Last edited by mossrose; 01-12-2015, 09:47 AM.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Scrawly View PostWell, Christianity has a context that lends credence to the OT narratives - Jesus, whom there is good reason to believe rose from the dead, regarded the OT narratives as historically true. Therefore, on that basis, one is far more justified in believing the OT narratives as likewise historically true, even if we don't have proof of the narratives (which seems next to impossible any way).
So basically Jesus was wrong?
I think I'll stick with believing as Jesus did that all Scripture is God-breathed and cannot be broken."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by whag, Yesterday, 03:01 PM
|
18 responses
72 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Today, 10:17 AM
|
||
Started by whag, 03-17-2024, 04:55 PM
|
21 responses
129 views
0 likes
|
Last Post 03-21-2024, 12:15 PM | ||
Started by whag, 03-14-2024, 06:04 PM
|
78 responses
415 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by tabibito
Yesterday, 10:50 PM
|
||
Started by whag, 03-13-2024, 12:06 PM
|
45 responses
303 views
1 like
|
Last Post 03-17-2024, 07:19 AM |
Comment