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Weaknesses of atheism

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  • Weaknesses of atheism

    I have put together a YouTube playlist of what I feel are the main weaknesses of atheism.

    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...fZhuZ7vn3UKlxo

    1. Why do atheists worry about immorality in the Bible if there is no such thing as objective morality? Apologist Frank Turek and American atheists president David Silverman discuss the Holocaust. Silverman says we can't really condemn the Nazis.

    2. How can atheists know there isn't a God? How can atheists "know" anything? Apologist William Lane Craig and atheist Christopher Hitchens discuss how Hitchens can be an atheist that knows there isn't a God.

    3. Father Robert Barron talks about the "new" atheists. The existentialist atheists of the past century knew there was no meaning or purpose to life without a God.

    4. Barron discusses atheist, physicist Stephen Hawking's book. Hawking doesn't adequately address the idea that something can happen without a reason.

    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...fZhuZ7vn3UKlxo
    666 And The Name

    http://https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D1M48M4/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1594855398&refinements=p_2 7%3AAlan+Fuller&s=digital-text&sr=1-1&text=Alan+Fuller

    https://sites.google.com/site/apocalypticwisdom/

  • #2
    Originally posted by eschaton View Post
    I have put together a YouTube playlist of what I feel are the main weaknesses of atheism.

    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...fZhuZ7vn3UKlxo

    1. Why do atheists worry about immorality in the Bible if there is no such thing as objective morality? Apologist Frank Turek and American atheists president David Silverman discuss the Holocaust. Silverman says we can't really condemn the Nazis.
    I believe there is such a thing as objective morality, even without God. Silverman is entitled to his opinion; not all atheists share it.

    2. How can atheists know there isn't a God? How can atheists "know" anything? Apologist William Lane Craig and atheist Christopher Hitchens discuss how Hitchens can be an atheist that knows there isn't a God.
    I don't believe leprechauns exist, but I don't know that to be the case with certainty. Same with my non-belief in God. Much of the discussion about what it means to be an atheist boils down to pointless semantics, in my view.

    3. Father Robert Barron talks about the "new" atheists. The existentialist atheists of the past century knew there was no meaning or purpose to life without a God.
    Atheists differ in their views, just like theists differ in their views. Some atheists find meaning and purpose in life without God, some do not. I'm not sure what that proves, other than the obvious conclusion that there are differing opinions.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Enjolras View Post
      I don't believe leprechauns exist, but I don't know that to be the case with certainty. Same with my non-belief in God. Much of the discussion about what it means to be an atheist boils down to pointless semantics, in my view.
      Semantics, perhaps, in trying to differentiate atheists from agnostics?
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Semantics, perhaps, in trying to differentiate atheists from agnostics?
        Right. If someone tries to make a big point about the fact that I don't know there is no god, and wants to therefore label me an agnostic, I really don't care. One can argue endlessly about the meaning of the terms and accomplish nothing. I don't believe in a god. Call that what you will.
        Last edited by Enjolras; 12-20-2014, 01:25 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Enjolras View Post
          Right. If someone tries to make a big point about the fact that I don't know there is no god, and wants to therefore label me an agnostic, I really don't care. One can argue endlessly about the meaning of the terms and accomplish nothing. I'm don't believe in a god. Call that what you will.
          OK, thanks -- -that's what I thought you were getting at.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            It is true that the common use of the term "atheist" as seen here on TWeb is prone to causing confusion. Another thread somewhere defined the only way I use the terms. Theist - one who believes there is a god. Agnostic - one who will not or can not say one way or the other as to the existence of a god. Atheist - one who believes there is no god. It seems that a lot of agnostics here like to call themselves atheists because they do not believe in a god, but do not believe there is no god. I think it mostly comes from a desire to avoid the need to explain how they know.
            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by eschaton View Post
              1. Why do atheists worry about immorality in the Bible if there is no such thing as objective morality? Apologist Frank Turek and American atheists president David Silverman discuss the Holocaust. Silverman says we can't really condemn the Nazis.
              Discussions of purported immorality in the Bible are intended to show inconsistencies in Christian ethics. If killing the innocent is always objectively wrong, as Christian ethicists generally contend, and if the Bible contains instances wherein God either commands or condones the murder of the innocent, then there is an inconsistency in Christian ethics which needs to be addressed.

              As for whether or not morality is objective, not all atheists share Silverman's views.

              2. How can atheists know there isn't a God? How can atheists "know" anything? Apologist William Lane Craig and atheist Christopher Hitchens discuss how Hitchens can be an atheist that knows there isn't a God.
              Most atheists do not claim to know that deity does not exist, in my experience. Rather, we simply note that we do not believe deity exists. For my part, I generally argue against those who purport to know that deity doesn't exist just as ardently as I argue against those who purport to know that deity does exist.

              3. Father Robert Barron talks about the "new" atheists. The existentialist atheists of the past century knew there was no meaning or purpose to life without a God.
              And many modern atheist philosophers disagree with those of the past century, in exactly the same way as Christian philosophers often disagree with those of the past.

              4. Barron discusses atheist, physicist Stephen Hawking's book. Hawking doesn't adequately address the idea that something can happen without a reason.
              I'm not familiar enough with which book or which argument Fr. Barron is addressing. It's completely possible that Hawking doesn't adequately address the issue. I don't see how this can be seen as an indictment upon all atheists.
              "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
              --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Enjolras View Post
                Right. If someone tries to make a big point about the fact that I don't know there is no god, and wants to therefore label me an agnostic, I really don't care. One can argue endlessly about the meaning of the terms and accomplish nothing. I don't believe in a god. Call that what you will.
                Just wondering here: Do you believe that there is an uncaused existence (apart from our known existence which seems to have a beginning)? On the premise there was never such a thing as nothingness. (Regardless whether our known universe has an unique origin or just one more sequence of cycles.)
                . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                  1. Why do atheists worry about immorality in the Bible if there is no such thing as objective morality?
                  I and other atheists have addressed this issue at great length in other threads here. It is not a problem.

                  Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                  Apologist Frank Turek and American atheists president David Silverman discuss the Holocaust. Silverman says we can't really condemn the Nazis.
                  I don't care what Silverman thinks. He is not my moral authority.

                  Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                  2. How can atheists know there isn't a God?
                  I don't know that there isn't one, and I don't need to know.

                  Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                  How can atheists "know" anything?
                  The same way other people know whatever they know.

                  Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                  Apologist William Lane Craig and atheist Christopher Hitchens discuss how Hitchens can be an atheist that knows there isn't a God.
                  I don't care what Hitchens thinks he knows.

                  Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                  3. Father Robert Barron talks about the "new" atheists. The existentialist atheists of the past century knew there was no meaning or purpose to life without a God.
                  Existentialists might have believed that. I don't agree that they knew it. And the only thing new about the new atheists is their chronological position among all the atheists who have ever lived.

                  Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                  4. Barron discusses atheist, physicist Stephen Hawking's book. Hawking doesn't adequately address the idea that something can happen without a reason.
                  If I get a chance to read Hawking's book, I will decide then whether he adequately addresses that idea. I'm not taking Barron's word for it.

                  But I don't actually care whether Hawking addresses the idea at all. I don't need Hawking to tell me whether something can happen without a reason. I also don't need Barron to tell me whether that has anything to do with whether God exists.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by eschaton View Post
                    I have put together a YouTube playlist of what I feel are the main weaknesses of atheism.

                    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...fZhuZ7vn3UKlxo

                    1. Why do atheists worry about immorality in the Bible if there is no such thing as objective morality? Apologist Frank Turek and American atheists president David Silverman discuss the Holocaust. Silverman says we can't really condemn the Nazis.
                    The claim of 'objective morality' is a vague, nebulous, undefined morality that is a claim of some theists. I believe in God, and I would never use the foolish claims for an 'objective morality' to justify the existence of God. Morality is neither objective nor subjective. Atheists do not claim that morality does not exist. Turek and Silverman do not represent all atheists. Read Martin Luther concerning a Christian view of the justification of the holocaust, and consider it moral.

                    2. How can atheists know there isn't a God? How can atheists "know" anything? Apologist William Lane Craig and atheist Christopher Hitchens discuss how Hitchens can be an atheist that knows there isn't a God.
                    Of course, there is no argument where we can 'know' whether God exists or not. I believe most atheists consider there does not exist a reason to believe in God(s), and basically do not try to prove God(s) do not exist.

                    3. Father Robert Barron talks about the "new" atheists. The existentialist atheists of the past century knew there was no meaning or purpose to life without a God.
                    Virtually all cultures and societies believe there is a reason for a purpose to life including atheists and agnostics. Many believe the purpose in life is in their children and the success of future generations.

                    4. Barron discusses atheist, physicist Stephen Hawking's book. Hawking doesn't adequately address the idea that something can happen without a reason.
                    The reason or 'why?' anything exists is theological question and yes, many atheists believe there is no necessary reason for our existence. Our physical existence including humanity simply exists. Actually Buddhists and Taoists share a similar view.
                    Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-20-2014, 10:08 PM.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      Just wondering here: Do you believe that there is an uncaused existence (apart from our known existence which seems to have a beginning)? On the premise there was never such a thing as nothingness. (Regardless whether our known universe has an unique origin or just one more sequence of cycles.)
                      Time may have been created at the beginning of the universe so the question of “before” may not make sense; therefore the question of cause and effect may not make sense. We don’t know if there was a ‘before’ before the singularity of the Big Bang. If there wasn't a “before,” then the whole notion of 1st cause does not make sense. The logic of our experience does not always make sense. The common sense notion that every effect must have a cause may not be true. The Universe may not need a cause. We just don’t know.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Enjolras View Post
                        Time may have been created at the beginning of the universe so the question of “before” may not make sense; therefore the question of cause and effect may not make sense. We don’t know if there was a ‘before’ before the singularity of the Big Bang. If there wasn't a “before,” then the whole notion of 1st cause does not make sense. The logic of our experience does not always make sense. The common sense notion that every effect must have a cause may not be true. The Universe may not need a cause. We just don’t know.
                        This debate between Sean Carroll and WLC covers the issue well:

                        http://youtu.be/X0qKZqPy9T8

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think it's perfectly adequate and honest to answer questions like 'Do you believe in an uncaused existence?' with a firm 'beats me!'

                          As has already been pointed out, a lot of these objections to atheism are based on the thoughts of one particular atheist. It's rather like objecting to Christianity on the grounds that Pat Robertson says dumb things.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by whag View Post
                            This debate between Sean Carroll and WLC covers the issue well:

                            http://youtu.be/X0qKZqPy9T8
                            Thanks for the link!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have added a fifth video. I think it is a pretty interesting discussion concerning Aristotle and the "utility monster."

                              http://youtu.be/meyg9MoFQhM?list=PLf...fZhuZ7vn3UKlxo

                              666 And The Name

                              http://https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D1M48M4/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1594855398&refinements=p_2 7%3AAlan+Fuller&s=digital-text&sr=1-1&text=Alan+Fuller

                              https://sites.google.com/site/apocalypticwisdom/

                              Comment

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